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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be raging at Dispatches "rich and on benefits"

475 replies

crashdoll · 18/03/2013 20:10

It's talking about pensioners and all they get from the welfare state regardless of income or savings. Cue clip of David Scameron saying he won't touch their benefits.

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 18/03/2013 23:08

It is not making absurd generalisations to state that a sufficient majority voted for those dreadful policies which screwed younger generations over Confused

Or we wouldn't have had them.

expatinscotland · 18/03/2013 23:08

'The ladder has been pulled up behind them, but they didn't do that on purpose. They had no more control over house prices and the benefits they get than any of us do now.'

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be any less exempt from the cuts than everyone else.

twofingerstoGideon · 18/03/2013 23:12

It is not making absurd generalisations to state that a sufficient majority voted for those dreadful policies which screwed younger generations over

Those voters weren't all baby-boomers/old people.
Working in a university, most of the 50-60 year olds I know wouldn't touch the Tory party with a very long bargepole. Age and Tory voting don't go hand-in-hand...

OTTMummA · 18/03/2013 23:12

I don't begrudge pension age people working because they need to, but I know a lot of over 65's still in work that just don't want to retire and therefore those jobs are closed off to young people entering the job Market for the first time.
Infact there are more retirement age workers than ever now, people live longer and have better health.
Clouds always trots out about how it's unfair to means test a group who can not increase their income, but I see plenty of over 65's working, in houses they could downsize from and let's not forget that they had ample oppertunity to take advantage of better interest rates and pension plans, if they chose not to to this are they not as feckless as the rest of us?

CloudsAndTrees · 18/03/2013 23:13

Haveing a mysogynistic go at single mums on benefit because they arent working and then saying that SAHMS contribute massively

Well Which is it????!!!!!!!

A SAHP on benefits can't really be said to be contributing can they? They might do stuff for their community, but it's not going to equal what they take out. Whereas a SAHP supported by their spouse can do the same things for the community, but be making a genuine contribution, because they aren't taking cash out of the pot. What they contribute is an actual contribution.

Wallison · 18/03/2013 23:14

I do think it's a bit much to be complaining about winter fuel allowance when it costs a pittance in terms of overall benefit spend, would cost more if it were means-tested and helps a lot of people who otherwise would have their quality of life drastically reduced if they were not getting it. The UK is a cold country. Our winter lasts six months. I wouldn't like to think of someone who is at the end of a productive working life sitting shivering and even getting hypothermia because they couldn't afford to heat their own home.

But I do think baby boomers have had it easy re house prices.

CloudsAndTrees · 18/03/2013 23:15

Clouds always trots out about how it's unfair to means test a group who can not increase their income, but I see plenty of over 65's working, in houses they could downsize from and let's not forget that they had ample oppertunity to take advantage of better interest rates and pension plans, if they chose not to to this are they not as feckless as the rest of us?

How can it possibly be feckless to work when you don't have to and to live in a house that you own? Confused

Darkesteyes · 18/03/2013 23:17

Back in the 80s, during Thatcher's reign, millions of baby boomers people were unemployed, too...

I know two fingers My mum was one of them And got royally screwed over because shed been paying half stamp.

Which makes it even harder to understand their vilification of the unemployed now.
e.g. You should have been there when i tried to explain the concept of workfare to them
Their reaction...Well i just wouldnt do it.
me...well you would lose your jobseekers then. They just shook their heads. they cannot comprehend it.
Same With Sunday/bank holiday working. they INSIST its against the law to not pay time and a half or double time and say they wouldnt do it.
I said "you would prob get the sack then" they didnt want to believe it. And they read the Daily Mail.

bassetfeet · 18/03/2013 23:17

Thank you Darkesteyes. meant a lot .

LaurieFairyCake · 18/03/2013 23:17

The vast majority of Tory voters are over 60 - their demographic is massively skewed.

I'm only interested in facts.

morethanpotatoprints · 18/03/2013 23:17

Clouds

I don't believe either are contributing, but don't have a problem with this.

Single sahp or a married sahp is the same to me. I am the latter.

HintofBream · 18/03/2013 23:20

Yes LaurieFairyStory some did, but that is not what you said earlier with your sweeping generalisation. Many of us worked hard to achieve labour governments in the hope that they would bring about a fairer society.

timidviper · 18/03/2013 23:21

Society has massively changed in the last generation. By the age of 50 both DPs and PILs had lost their parents, inherited anything there was to inherit and invested/spent that money so keeping the economy moving. At the same age DP and I are supporting ageing parents who spend fairly frugally (other than PILs holidays which are all outside UK) thus not stimulating the UK economy and costing the country a lot in pensions and healthcare. Now I am not for one minute advocating a swifter end for pensioners Shock but I do think this may explain some of the economic woes of the country

I am, according to the definition above, one of the latest baby boomers which surprises me as I didn't realise I was one. Although we have had some advantages like free university education we battled rising house prices and high interest rates so we, certainly, have not benefitted anywhere near as much as the golf club men.

Maybe we should find the name of that golf club and swamp them with letters of protest!

Darkesteyes · 18/03/2013 23:22

Clouds what really gets my back up is that single mums are vilified while single dads are hero worshipped.
I bet it was the former you were thinking of while writing that post.

twofingerstoGideon · 18/03/2013 23:22

The vast majority of Tory voters are over 60
The vast majority of Labour voters are probably over 60 too.
The vast majority of voters are probably over 60.

LaurieFairyCake · 18/03/2013 23:25

What on earth are you wittering about.

It is not a generalisation to state that enough people voted Tory over the years for those policies to be enacted.

I have no idea why on earth you think I'm calling you a Tory or generalising about how YOU voted - fine, you voted Labour - as did I back then.

If you're in agreement with the basic facts I've stated :

  1. The vast majority of Tory Voters are over 60
And
  1. Successive Tory governments enacted those policies over the years and pulled up the ladder behind them increasing the gap between rich and poor ensuring that young people are truly fucked

Then what exactly are you arguing about.

I didn't call YOU a Tory just because you're a senior citizen Confused

CloudsAndTrees · 18/03/2013 23:26

Actually, I was thinking of Mums that run PTA events that benefit all our children and the voluntary work I (a Mum) am able to do with disabled people due to working part time, but you carry on with your assumptions if you like.

OTTMummA · 18/03/2013 23:27

I am explaining that just because you are over 65 that doesn't mean you have no way to increase your earnings.
If you are over 65 you have probably had a much better chance of building a nest egg to keep you comfortable at retirement than anyone born in my generation.
I stand by this, if it's ok to take money from disabled children then it's ok to take money from rich old people.

twofingerstoGideon · 18/03/2013 23:29

Who are you wittering about, Laurie, and why the rudeness?

Successive Tory and Labour governments promoted policies that saw house prices soar and the division between rich and poor get wider and wider.

And who are you calling a senior citizen?
Your post is rather baffling.

CloudsAndTrees · 18/03/2013 23:30

It's not ok to take money from disabled children though. Wrongly taking from one doesn't make it right to take from another.

If they had hit pensioners before hitting disabled people, would that be ok then?

twofingerstoGideon · 18/03/2013 23:32

It it wrong to hit anyone, Clouds. Violence is not the answer.
HTH

OTTMummA · 18/03/2013 23:33

Rich pensioners? Yes.
I am enraged that people who have major assets and had better financial luck than any other get more than any other group of society.

nagynolonger · 18/03/2013 23:33

Most baby boomers left school at 15 (maybe 16 for the younger ones). Most never went to university and paid tax and NI on leaving school. Many who left at 15 will be in their mid 50s now so still working!

Also re the crap about the women hardly ever working. They did work but many paid a 'married womens stamp' because it saved them moneyat the time.....they needed the money because they were young parents. The reduced NI a married woman paid ment she could claim s*d all. Working class women have always had to work. My DM, GM and as far back as I can tell all worked and brought up children.

There are some very rich pensioners but they are not the majority. They should means test WFA and stop 60+ travelling for free on early morning buses. Around here the only people who pay on the 8am bus are the A level students who pay £4 per day to get to and from school.

CloudsAndTrees · 18/03/2013 23:33
Grin
LaurieFairyCake · 18/03/2013 23:33

I'm not being at all rude Confused

I have no idea why you and Bream have said I'm generalising or why you think I'm accusing you of voting for Tory policies.

I didn't, I haven't. And neither did I.

But people did, and they are most likely over 60. In fact the average age of a member of the Tory party is 72.