To be raging at Dispatches "rich and on benefits"

[crashdoll]

It's talking about pensioners and all they get from the welfare state regardless of income or savings. Cue clip of David Scameron saying he won't touch their benefits.

[nkf]

Prog made Stringfellow look like a very nice chap!
I know! Never thought I'd see the day...

[Kazooblue]

Oh nag they are.My dad doesn't pay golf or support Ukip but has no need for benefits and has those views. Soooo many of my friends have said the same re family/people they know.

[HintofBream]

I would not object to the WFA being removed, but do agree with the poster who said means testing it would probably cost more than the savings, and removing it wholesale would be tough on those who rely on it.
On the other hand, my GP has just given me a print out of my and DH's prescriptions, and there are loads! Even the pre-payment option would be around £20 a month for the two of us. I know that is illogical as the £240 for prescriptions is half the WFA, but you notice spending more than you notice a credit on your bank account.

[Kazooblue]

So Hint what are the rest of us supposed to do?We have to pay for prescriptions and support children,pay a mortgage..........

Many families have far less at the end of the month to pay for prescriptions than wealthy pensioners.

[HintofBream]

I know you will say "the past is past", but you will have to do what I did when my kids were small and we were poor - suck it up.

[boxershorts]

Rich on benefits but only compared to homeless

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Grimble
I think you have been fair and reasonable. Clearly you lived through difficult times too and all of us need to be careful about assuming we know what others have experienced.

This is not an issue with all pensioners some of whom are in dire straits. This is a question whether a wealthy subset of pensioners should be exempt from cuts.

I do think one thing that has skewed the situation currently is housing costs as a % of the average wage. It appears (on a totally unscientific analysis) that house price inflation has meant that housing costs are now a larger part of the family budget.

I do struggle a bit with those few people who run the "I've paid in for years" argument. Where does that end e.g. I am a higher earner so I've paid a lot more tax than most people, so should I get a higher pension when I retire (even though I am better placed than many people to prepare for my retirement)?

[nagynolonger]

I think all prescriptions should be free. I know I ripped up prescriptions for pain killers and ABs when I was a young mum because I couldn't afford the fee. What else do you do? I had to buy food for the DC.......Lots of us have been there.

[AnnabelKarma]

Why not abolish the WFA but increase the basic benefits related pension that the very poorest pensioners get?

[Thymeout]

What a depressing thread. The golf club pensioners are as typical of the majority as the woman on benefits who wants to live in a £1 million house in Belgravia. Y y to Ex-pat's last post. Wake up people and see what they are doing, setting one disadvantaged group against another.

i'm in favour of universal benefits because they recognise that there are stages in life when you have additional expenses - children cost money and so does being old. Dentists, opticians, medicine, not being able to walk as far, having to pay people to do what you used to be able to do yourself. I think they are a mark of a civilised society. 'To each according to their need'.

Yes, rich people do not need those benefits. So get it back through tax, not, as this government has done, introduce tax CUTS for the rich. Remember what happened with child benefit. Clegg stood up in parliament, like Squealer in Animal Farm, and argued that he personally didn't need it. And, like sheep, we all agreed. Then it turned out that their definition of 'rich' turned out to be someone like a SAHM I know, three children under 7, living in a 2 bed terrace, teacher husband earning just over the limit, who was going to lose her food budget. (Big mortgage, London house prices, SAHM because nursery fees £60 p.d. Not exactly rolling in it.) I've already seen it suggested that WFA and bus pass should only be for those on pension credit.

Hard cases make bad law. There aren't enough 'rich' pensioners to make it worth removing benefits just from them. Means testing is v expensive. Which is why all other governments of both parties have left universal benefits alone.

[nameuschangeus]

There is so much inaccuracy and judgment on this thread it's untrue.

My parents are reasonably comfortably off - own their own home etc. My Mum is 75 and despite the belief that women of that age group didn't work - she did for all but about 6 years of her life when her children were very small. She paid extra in to make sure she had paid into her NI. The reason that they are able to take a holiday or buy themselves some nice food is because they have spent their whole lives scrimping and saving and cutting corners for exactly this stage of their lives.

Mumsnet comes down on the judgers like a ton of bricks if anyone dares to slag off anyone like them but it seems as though it's OK to judge pensioners when you don't know them.

[OTTMummA]

This is a thread about weatlthy pensioners getting benefits they do.not.need.

Not about your mother, or my nan, or my aunties who are average people who live in average homes, who have average incomes.
It is about ( how many bloody times do we have to keep pointing this out ) wealthy pensioners being catered to whilst disabled children and working age people are having to face cuts after cuts, being forced to choose between a warm home or more than toast for dinner.

If it is ok to take money away from disabled children and working families who can't make ends meet as it is then it is ok to take money away from well to do old people.

Stop taking offence to where there was none intended.
Oh, and there are plenty of people who work hard now, maybe even harder than your parents did, but they won't get to scrimp and save for retirement as for a lot of people now, there is NOTHING left to save

[FasterStronger]

Oh what hysteria. The idea that we are the generation suffering the most is just crap.

[OTTMummA]

It isn't hysteria,, like for like, if you were born after 1984 you are more likely to have less quality of life than any generation born after WW2.

The very fact that a lot of people ignore the facts and think things are easier now is just insulting, and frankly does more damage than ignorance wrt the entire economic situation.
It perpetuates the belief that the poor deserve to be poor and they only need to work harder to rise above poverty.

I would like to hear why you think this is crap.

[lainiekazan]

It's just not a level playing field now. Not that it ever was, mind you, but at least that post-war generation had the chance to go to university for nothing (yes, I know it was 10% - but they had the opportunity if they were bright) and were able to move around the country for work and generally move on up.

Now, however clever you are and however hard you may work, if you come from, say, Hull (sorry, Hull!) you cannot up sticks and buy a place to live in the home counties. And no way can you afford to have one parent at home either. How can you compete with people who may be inheriting hundreds of thousands of pounds through property?

Ok, so we may eat fancier food and use fancier gadgets than our parents, but when it comes to the Big Stuff - there is no doubt that we can afford less.

[nagynolonger]

The other 90% were just as important. There were well paid jobs for them. Those jobs don't exist now.

[FasterStronger]

my parents had no chance of uni, not even education to 18, they were working class. They did not know anyone who went to uni.

How many people went to uni 50 years ago? How many go now?

[Darkesteyes]

nameuschangus my parents are both 77 and are still working because they say they cant afford to stop.
my mums says because the pension is only paid into her account once a month that she cant budget.
When i pointed that her wages are also paid once a month she shut down the conversation.
DH has always been in poor health so ive always been the breadwinner. When going through a spell of unemployment in the late 90s she could NOT understand why i couldnt just get a part time job. A part time wage could NOT have paid all the rent council tax DHs prescriptions. water food etc.
But she wouldnt have it and her and my dad kept saying "any job is better than the dole" Well im glad they think that because after a spell on workfare i applied for a job in a sex chatline office and worked there for 2 and a half years. Its the best paid job i ever had and we could afford to pay for things including dhs regular prescriptions
But i told my parents i was working for a catologue company because they would have (very hypocritically IMO) moaned like fuck and said they were ashamed of me for doing such a job. they can be very mysogynistic too.
So anyone saying to younger people "any job is better than the dole" be careful what you wish for"
What pissed me off (still does) is the fact that my parents say they cant survive on their state and private pensions and say that is why they are still working and yet expect others to survive on a lot less. like when they suggessted me and DH could survive on one part time wage.

You can keep saying that stuff on this thread is inaccurate but you cant say that about peoples personal experiences of these kinds of attitudes and this is mine.

[crashdoll]

Faster It was much easier to get a job without a degree then, so your point doesn't stand up particularly well.

[FasterStronger]

crash it was in response to at least that post-war generation had the chance to go to university for nothing (yes, I know it was 10% - but they had the opportunity if they were bright)

if uni is free but you cannot go because you are WC, its certainly no better than paying.

but your post did make me wonder about historic unemployment levels:

Economy: Unemployment and Employment by social class

unemployment was above 10% from 1920 to 1940. how good do you think welfare was then? No NHS and no money for a doctor....

good god people died of cholera in Ireland in the 1950s.

not to mention both wars - which people alive now fought in/lived through.

any you still think this is the hard time?

[OTTMummA]

We are talking about after the war, people born after the war.
As far as i am aware the war ended in 1949.

I have no idea why you are going on about a time that is irrelevant to the thread or maybe you just can't find any statistics to prove it was harder for baby boomers, not that it matters much now anyway.

That link doesn't work btw.

[OTTMummA]

1945* my apologise

[OTTMummA]

i don't like paxman but this is not an uncommon view from my generation

[Darkesteyes]

I dont think people from the First World War are still alive Faster. It started 100 yrs ago next year.

Thats like saying the people who were investigating Jack the Rippers crimes in 1888 were still alive in 1988.

[goingmadinthecountry]

FasterStronger, my dad went to university and he's now 84. His dad was a miner. It was the grammar school system. He can still hold a damn good conversation about Stalin with my dds at university / A level. Love him to bits and he's very clever and interested. Great role model for my dcs. My mum went to university too - her dad was an engineer in the industrial north.

Doesn't need any fuel allowance though. Spends his winters in S of France.