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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be raging at Dispatches "rich and on benefits"

475 replies

crashdoll · 18/03/2013 20:10

It's talking about pensioners and all they get from the welfare state regardless of income or savings. Cue clip of David Scameron saying he won't touch their benefits.

OP posts:
Tortington · 18/03/2013 21:17

nobody 'pays in' to the value they take out, it doesn't work like that.

if someone aged 34 owned a house worth £300,000 and couldn't afford to live, heat it, eat etc. they should sell it.

just becuase you are 65+ doesn't make you exempt. sell it old lady - get a flat you can afford.

either you are poor and you get benefits becuase you need them

or
you
bloody
well dont

old people shouldnt be exempt

they are becuase they vote.

tories are bastards. bottom feeding cunts. i hate them. they let corporations away with avaoiding MILIONS AND MILLIONS in corporation tax.

Procrastinating · 18/03/2013 21:18

My stepmother (having never worked) is currently fuming because of interest rates, they can no longer have 3 holidays a year on the interest from their savings.

They expected to save up and then sit on it while even more money was given to them.

I loved the WWII generation, my grandparents and their friends were wise and kind, they expected very little. Nothing like this golf club / saga lot.

Viviennemary · 18/03/2013 21:19

I missed it the programme. I can see why people get annoyed at rich pensioners who seem to be raking it in. But I do know some pensioners who have savings and only quite small private pensions and they have to count every penny. So don't qualify for pension credit. So I don't begrudge them winter fuel allowance and so on. I do care where benefits go and I want to see them go to those in need of benefits.

Darkesteyes · 18/03/2013 21:19

Clouds i put a link in another thread about how a pizza company had 100 yes ONE HUNDRED people on workfare.
Something those golf club pensioners never had to do or compete with.

Working age people choosing not to work. what a load of bollocks.

Original poster
crashdoll · 18/03/2013 21:19

Clouds So, we should continue wasting money on wealthy people because some people do little to help themselves. Remember: good health is not a given. One day you or someone you loves may find themselves needing support from the state.

OP posts:
MrsOakenshield · 18/03/2013 21:19

my mum and my FIL are both fairly minted. My mum is outraged by the benefits cuts affecting families and children, and would be more than happy if she lost pretty much all her benefits - she doesn't need them. FIL, on the other hand says 'I've paid my taxes, I deserve them.' He also has zero need for them. He really didn't seem to understand the argument. This is a man who gets 70 grand a year from ONE of his pensions. To keep himself. None of his 4 children with families has a household income like this, very far from it.

One thing though - my mum's income comes from a number of sources - I can imagine that it would cost a hell of a lot of money to make pensioners benefits means-tested.

landofsoapandglory · 18/03/2013 21:21

CloudsAndTrees, but the State are shafting the disabled. Did you know that under the changes to DLA if you can walk 20m with 2 sticks you won't qualify for mobility component, even of you collapse into a wheelchair or need oxygen?

But it's ok, as long as they keep the pensioners happy!

Wallison · 18/03/2013 21:21

The thing with winter fuel allowance etc is that it would cost more to means-test it than it does to just have it available to everyone. I do think the baby-boomers have had a pretty good deal out of the welfare state, free tertiary education and so on, but I don't see what can be done about that. The housing crisis is a different matter though - people should be taxed on the assets they own, every year - they even manage to do this in the states, which is the most gung-ho neo-capitalist society you can think of.

Original poster
crashdoll · 18/03/2013 21:22

Wallison They said that about CB too.

OP posts:
Kazooblue · 18/03/2013 21:22

Erm they're means testing CB ( in a ludicrous unfair way).

HappyMummyOfOne · 18/03/2013 21:23

I thought state pensions were based upon contributions, therefore only paid out if the person had paid in for numerus years? Not sure which benefits are universal but they should remain so just like child benefit should have.

Youngsters take far more out than pensioners benefit wise im sure, lots without ever making a contribution first to the pot.

Surely a pensioner who has worked all their life is entitled to help in their elderly years. Adults who could work choose not to and apparently thats ok and we should pay them for that choice so double standards at play.

Toasttoppers · 18/03/2013 21:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Procrastinating · 18/03/2013 21:24

Of course pensioners who need it should get benefits.

HintofBream you would not get on well in the golf club! Your son is very lucky.

bassetfeet · 18/03/2013 21:25

The fuel allowance is used in my house for heating. It helps hugely as we are mostly at home 24/7 through illness . I feel so sad when I read pensioners being attacked for being baby boomers who have had it all so easy.
As in all life there is a huge variation in the demograph.
Agree that it should be tied in with pension credit .
A lot of us have strived hard to support our children with financial help and child care with what we have time and savings wise.[long gone]
Seems a bit pointless anyway owning your own home these days . It will be taken from you in care home fees .

infamouspoo · 18/03/2013 21:25

WFA could be lined to pension tax credit easily enough

CloudsAndTrees · 18/03/2013 21:26

One day you or someone you loves may find themselves needing support from the state.

I appreciate that. But if it does happen, it won't be as a result of having children I have no way of affording. It will be for a reason that is worthy of state support.

I am in favour of the welfare state. Including pensions.

Tortington · 18/03/2013 21:27

CB shouldnt remain universal - not sure why i should pay for some MC yummy mummy to have a latte with her chum whilst Annabel is at nursery.

ooohh....was that a total white wash of the MC world? welcome to custy's Daily Mail esq writing.

seriously though - CB element shoud be included in universal credit - if your poor enough to get UC you get a CB element. if not - hard titties

ihategeorgeosborne · 18/03/2013 21:27

With more and more families struggling to buy and rent property, we need a land value tax now. This is one of the good elements about the libdems. Probably the only one though it has to be said. I wouldn't do a mansion tax on property over 2 million though, I'd do a collective property tax on all property owned. How is right that some people can own 2+ houses, while others can't afford one? This needs to be addressed and I will vote for the party that puts this in their manifesto, if what any of them say can be believed. Pensioner freebies should just be abolished and the pension should be increased for those in NEED.

MrsOakenshield · 18/03/2013 21:28

of course many baby boomers had it good, they're laughing all the way to the bank - cheap housing, plentiful employment, family allowance, final salary pensions. Don't give a shit about the fact that the current generation (which will include their own children and their families) will never have it so good (yes, MIL and your DH, I'm looking at you here!), they don't think they should let go of a bean they're 'entitled' to. Grrrrrr. (And don't get me started on 'immigrants coming over here and taking all the jobs and having loads of children' or I will truly blow a gasket.)

Wallison · 18/03/2013 21:28

Child benefit isn't being means tested in the traditional sense though - it's being cut through the tax system, which is what has led to the anomalies that many are criticising. And the reason they are doing it this way is that because to properly means-test it would cost more money than it saves.

CloudsAndTrees · 18/03/2013 21:29

CloudsAndTrees, but the State are shafting the disabled

I know that, and as I've already said, I don't agree with that. I am capable of agreeing with one government policy while disagreeing with another.

ihategeorgeosborne · 18/03/2013 21:30

I agree with you custardo about CB. We lose some of it, as just over threshold. It makes me bloody livid that people on nearly twice our household income keep it. It should be incorporated into universal credit. That would also deal with the current anomalies with the single versus double income issue. They've included CB for the benefit cap so why not just merge it with universal credit?

Tortington · 18/03/2013 21:30

worthy of state suypport - what like - being made redundant?

how about if you have three children, get divorced, work the same job for years, get made redundant.

bad single mother to three children - shudda kept yer leggs crossed love!! tut tut