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Original poster

To be shocked and appalled by this book

151 replies

becsparkel · 16/03/2013 23:45

I realise this has probably been raised before but I have only just become aware of this parenting book vile piece of shite, currently available for sale on amazon. The book advocates whipping babies as young as 4 months to "train" them to obey:

"At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree."

Many more sickening quotes on this anti site Why Not To Train A Child

There's a petition to stop Amazon from selling it here: amazon refuse to carry books which advocate the physical abuse of children

Great blog piece here: amazon we find child abuse offensive

OP posts:
pigletmania · 18/03/2013 16:17

The are trying to use Christianity as a disguise and to justify their abuse. Nowhere in th bible does it say to abuse Chidren, Jesus loved children. Gd they must ate Chidren so much. They should never have had Chidren in h frost place Frey are not blot take t hard work and instead resort to violence

pigletmania · 18/03/2013 16:20

Gosh sorry typing on I pad

TeWiSavesTheDay · 18/03/2013 16:43

I think it's pretty clear that these are crazy people and not representative of christians in general.

I've been reading a few of the blogs linked to from talking about this book, and it seems like it is most used among very fundamentalist groups with a strict patriarchy and an expectation of lots of very obedient children (like quiverfull/the duggars). I guess I can see why, because they are very culty and those who speak out probably get excluded.

Poor kids. Amazon should be ashamed of themselves.

sick0fants · 18/03/2013 16:44

Beyond grim.
I've signed the petition.

VisualiseAHorse · 18/03/2013 17:42

I'm working my way through that online version.

*As the mother, holding her child, leans over the crib and begins the swing downward, the infant stiffens, takes a deep breath and bellows. The battle for control has begun in earnest. Someone is going to be conditioned. Either the tender-hearted mother will cave in to this self-centered demand (thus training the child to get his way by crying) or the infant is allowed to cry (learning that crying is counterproductive). Crying because of genuine physical need is simply the infant's only voice to the outside world; but crying in order to manipulate the adults into constant servitude should never be rewarded. Otherwise, you will reinforce the child's growing self-centeredness, which will eventually become socially intolerable.
*

Yes, because newborns cry in order to manipulate their mothers. What The Actual Fuck. Your new baby needs assurance that you are there for them at all times. Even myself, who did CC with my little boy, never ever ever saw his crying as a way to manipulate me into following his every command.

Original poster
becsparkel · 18/03/2013 20:50

It's this one that made me want to cry: Debi Pearl whips the bare leg of a 15 month old she is babysitting, 10 separate times, for not playing with something she tells him to play with.

"After about ten acts of stubborn defiance, followed by ten switchings, he surrendered his will to one higher than himself. In rolling the wheel, he did what every accountable human being must do?he humbled himself before the ?highest? and admitted that his interests are not paramount. After one begrudged roll, my wife turned to other chores."

Heartbreaking.

OP posts:
AmandinePoulain · 18/03/2013 21:13
Sad

That isn't 'training', it's breaking Sad

pigletmania · 18/03/2013 21:26

if i was that mum of the 15 month she babysat for i would go to the police. they seriously sound fucked up and sadistic

Lorialet · 18/03/2013 21:34

Wow. You only have to look at "What Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought".

manicinsomniac · 18/03/2013 21:43

Wow, that is unbelievable.

You're all very restrained though, I'm going to buy it! I can't resist extremist claptrap. Sounds like a good few days worth of entertainment.

BertieBotts · 18/03/2013 21:45

The whole text used to be online on their website. I wouldn't want to give them any royalties TBH :(

LifeHope11 · 18/03/2013 21:58

Is it really legal to sell this in the UK? I am no expert on this at all but I can't see how anyone striking a young baby with an implement could use a defence of 'reasonable chastisement' - how can it be lawful to sell a book in the UK that advocates this?

Are the NSPCC aware of this book? NSPCC campaign against corporal punishment, is there a way the Amazon link (or even a link to this thread) can be forwarded to them?

LynetteScavo · 18/03/2013 21:58

ER, why isn't Debi Pearl in prison? Shock

Is it even legal to sell crap like this?

Isn't it a crime to encourage inflicting violence on children?

LifeHope11 · 18/03/2013 22:01

Cross posted with you Lynette. Is there anyone who is able to comment on the legality of this? I believe that the law on corporal punishment of children is ambiguous at present.

IneedAsockamnesty · 18/03/2013 22:07

No the uk laws on corporal punishment are not ambiguous at all.

It is against the law to hit a child unless you are a parent or guardian then you can hit them but if you leave a mark you have broken the law.

The sooner they grow some balls and make it completely against the law the better.

TeWiSavesTheDay · 18/03/2013 22:14

I think they say it shouldn't leave a mark, but honestly the level/length of beatings they describe... there must have been marks.

I think the full text is online for free, someone linked to it.

TeWiSavesTheDay · 18/03/2013 22:17

full text here thanks latte.

Don't give them royalties buying it please.

LifeHope11 · 18/03/2013 22:22

Is the parent/guardian hitting a child with a switch or stick etc also allowed Sockreturningpixie, provided they don't leave a mark? How can it be possible to judge 100% the amount of force to ensure the child is not harmed, when an impliment is used? I can't believe this can be permitted in this country....agree it should be illegal and by the same token, books such as these may be banned.

Original poster
becsparkel · 18/03/2013 22:22

Yes, it's legal to spank or smack in the UK as long as you don't leave a Mark. Apparently they make a point in the book on how not to leave a mark. That's also why they advise using switches & plumbers line, because they inflict the most pain without leaving a mark.

OP posts:
CremeDeCassis · 18/03/2013 22:23

Petition signed. Sick fuckers.

IneedAsockamnesty · 18/03/2013 22:24

In this country using a object or weapon is always illegal so a cane switch wip anything like that is against the law.

LifeHope11 · 18/03/2013 22:24

That is horrifying. I will discontinue shopping at Amazon until they remove this item from sale.

IneedAsockamnesty · 18/03/2013 22:26

Fwiw tomorrow I'm having lunch with a barrister who specialises in some type of publishing law I'm going to ask him if there are any laws that could be used to challenge the sale of this book in the uk.

Its worth an ask.

LifeHope11 · 18/03/2013 22:36

Thank you pixie, please let us know what he says. I just don't understand how it can be legal then to sell a book which advocates methods of chastisement of children which are outlawed in this country, and so effectively incites readers to break the law.

BubblegumPie · 18/03/2013 22:46

I've signed and shared. DD will be getting lots of extra cuddles and kisses tomorrow I think!

Those poor, poor children. Sad