To think there is not really any chikdren in poverty in the uk

[Domjolly]

I think last nights comic relief has really brought home to me and my family that there is not really any children in the uk who live in REAL poverty

There is not one child that has to walk 3 hours to school
There is not one child that cant get some form of education
There is not one child who can get medical intervention
I think you would be hard pressed to find familys which children who are homeless or who dont have clean water and sanitation

And i actaully now thing people who say this is insulting to children who do live in real poverty

aaahhhhhhhhhhh not every child in UK has access to public funds

www.womensaid.org.uk/page.asp?section=00010001001000020001

The ?no recourse to public funds? rule adversely affects women experiencing domestic violence who also have insecure immigration status due to entering the UK to join their settled partner. This is because women experiencing domestic violence who have insecure immigration status are unable to access protection, safety and support services because they have no recourse to public funds, ie. they are unable to access statutory help for housing or related public funds for housing costs (housing benefit to pay the rent) or living expenses (benefits such as income support).

This means that these women with ?no recourse? who are fleeing abuse are even unable to access refuges spaces as these are maintained through rental income mainly funded by housing benefit. As a result many women subject to immigration control are trapped with a violent partner. They face a stark choice: either stay within the relationship and risk their lives, and those of their children, or leave and face destitution or being deported.

Women who experience this unequal access to protection include women who are married or are partners of a British national or someone settled in this country; and women who are partners or dependants of students and workers, or are here temporarily in their own right. Many of these women have children who are British citizen.

The Domestic Violence Immigration Rule allows women who enter the UK as spouses or long-term partners of a British national or someone settled in this country, and who are subject to a two year probationary period, to apply for residency if they can ?prove? the relationship broke down due to domestic violence.

Yet in practice, the ?no recourse? rule means that many women subject to a probationary period are unable to make use of this Rule because they cannot access safety and protection for the length of time it takes to finalise an application (before making an application abused women need time to seek support and advice about their options in a safe environment, obtain legal representation, and gather evidence to support an application).

What?s the solution?

Abused women subject to immigration control need financial resources to enable them to access safety, support and advice, before making a Domestic Violence Rule application. We call for an exemption to the ?no recourse to public funds rule? for all abused women in crisis and subject to immigration control.

Accessible information about domestic violence and the immigration rules should be available before entry into the UK, at the point of entry, and routinely in appropriate venues in local communities. Those who have ?overstayed? because of their experience of domestic violence should also be eligible to apply for residency under the Domestic Violence Immigration Rule.

The Domestic Violence Immigration Rule should be extended to all abused women in crisis subject to immigration control. All abused women and children subject to immigration control need access to permanent safety and support in the UK.

In the meantime, mandatory guidance should be issued to all local authorities which requires them to use their existing powers to financially assist and support single women and women with children experiencing domestic and sexual violence with insecure immigration status without recourse to public funds. Any guidance produced should require local authorities to fund abused women from the point of leaving and until a final Border and Immigration Agency decision on the case.

What I find really interesting in these discussions is the fact that those on right, so keen on moral obligation and individual responsibility are the very same people who fail to EDUCATE themselves. Wilfully ignorant of the facts they consistently resort to personal bias and anecdote.

They NEVER ground their personal opinion on evidence, when faced with evidence they look the other way. This I guess is why they fail to see what is so blatantly obvious.

I also wish those on the right would learn to spell ! or at least educate themselves to use spell check......they do have an obligation and personal responsibility to do so

Bit of a sweeping statement mini . Do you believe ALL those on the right can't spell? And surely their personal bias will be based on their personal opinion? It wouldn't make sense otherwise. You assume that everyone should have leanings towards the left because you do, and if they don't then they are wrong

Op yabu.

My sister comes out with the same sort of rubbish but she's a nasty thick festering cock.

i am biased based on my personal experiences and meeting children in poverty, why wouldnt i be?

nailak, my comment was about those denying poverty in the UK.

i work in a very deprived area,
a family of five children do not go to school becuase their mum is a druggie. they have no toys
they dont have clean beds
they dont have clean clothes
food isn't always bought - and when it is, the kids fight for it - literally.
they are about to be taken in care - ( we think)
This has been going on for years.

This is not unusual

We run activities whihc include cooking, so the kids who come to the project can get a meal that day.

I think there are many people in the UK who can't afford to heat their houses. Fuel prices are so high I know we couldnt if on a low wage.
I consider living in an unheated house in the UK in winter absolute poverty rather than relative actually. It could kill you if you are very young, old, unwell or unable to move about for any reason.
I realise years ago people didn't have central heating but most people had a fire and only the very poor couldn't use it. Actually even very poor people would collect rubbish to burn, an option unavailable in most low quality accommodation today, which usually has electric heaters only.

ooh look a benefit bashing thread appearing right after Comic Relief

Dark don't forget it will be complaining about it being called children in need because there aren't any.

The thread will be called crap parents.

I was shocked recently to hear of a school near to me where the teachers arrive at work early each day to walk a circular route knocking on doors to collect children and walk them to school because they know that the parents will not get their children to school otherwise. I had no idea things were this bad

I think the problem is poverty of aspiration not poverty like you see in Africa

Just to point out, again, not everyone in poverty is there because they are junkies or alcoholics.

There are plenty of people who work in low paid jobs and struggle to heat homes, feed their families and clothe them. Due to rising fuel and food and a stagnant economy.

I'm not in poverty (not so much that I can't eat, though heating is rationed) but I am lucky.

scottishmummy

You have no idea.

I knew I needed glasses for 3 years before I was taken to an optician.

I had to beg for a doctor to be called, I begged from mid day until the evening. The Dr took about 30 seconds before he called an ambulance.

We were not poor, by any standards, which is probably why no social worker appeared on the scene.

There is poverty in the UK, just like there is in all Western countries.

There are families who fall between the social security net.

Then there are neglected children. A child who isn't properly clothed, fed or housed properly is in poverty from that child's perspective.

While there is far more poverty in the third world, there is another thing that the UK may be pretty close behind on - despair.

OF COURSE there is poverty in the UK, as there is in the US and all other western countries. Comparing levels of poverty is utterly counter-productive, although I am sure it makes some posters feel better to decide that parents have chosen drinking and smoking over feeding their kids.

I'm going to hide this thread now. The OP and her Daily Mail wilful ignorance drive me insane.

Bowlers - I love the fact that the thing that really pissed you off about mini's post was the slur on right-wingers' ability to spell. A woman after my own heart. (Not politically but we can join hands across the divide on the importance of spelling.)

I have no idea?What about your glasses?
Well given I've not specifically discussed glasses with you.what's your point.
What's the backstory to 3yr wait?why not get free pair at optician

Edam you haven't defected to the right have you well I am just digging because if those on the right think personal obligation trumps social responsibility you would expect education to form a major part of their drive towards self sufficiency.

Bias is different to opinion, someone's bias will colour their opinion.

I think a major difference in thinking stems from how people actually think, the process btw their ears. For people on the right opinion is grounded in the bias towards linear cause and effect, ie lack of back bone causes poverty. Those on the left might look at the situation and say there is a two way process of cause and effect, poverty is caused by lack of financial resources, lack of financial resources leads to hopelessness, just as hopelessness causes poverty. Those on the right are biased towards blaming individuals because of bias, their opinion is formed from that starting point, this means all evidence to the contrary can be ignored.

There are bad parents at every income level. If you are rich, it's easier to cover it up or at least not come to the attention of social services. But it can be ruddy hard to be a good parent if you are struggling to feed your children, struggling to heat your home, struggling with bureaucracy when the benefits office or council makes a mistake and suddenly leaves you penniless or homeless.

Poverty is often caused by ill-health - look at the relative levels of poverty amongst the disabled or people with chronic diseases compared to the non-disabled or healthy. But it also causes ill-health, e.g. damp housing worsening asthma in people who would probably not be triggered if they lived in decent homes.

Regarding the comments about poor spelling, I still can't help wondering whether the OP is a right-wing journalist who has thrown in some grammatical and spelling howlers and typos to throw people off the scent. Look out for an article on this subject in the Mail, Telegraph or Spectator!

There was another thread recently on the usual benefits bashing theme, where the OP talked about educated people while displaying the worst spelling and grammar imaginable.

Maybe it's a coincidence.

Good point. Is there a purpose behind some of these very goading threads?

Those on right like to think that individual responsibility is the key to understanding why some prosper and others don't. Surely then, there is a relationship between aspiration in work and aspiration in education. Those people who are educated to rule have not necessarily been taught to think more than those taught to obey (workers), docility and having no desire to question things leads to the perpetuation of a two class system. If that is true then no amount of hard graft will lift those with little social power out of the gutter of dependency, whilst those born and educated to rule believe that is the natural order. David Cameron is not evil because he has been "educated" to think in very specific terms, his education and lack of critical thinking and scientific enquiry is purposefully manufactured by a two tier education system to shore up and perpetuate the interests of his own class. A system that consistently obscures the real reasons for inequality in order to perpetuate that inequality.

That is why our political class WILL NEVER believe that inequality is anything other than a case of laziness and immorality on the part of the working class.

Ofcourse there is u stupid stupid woman!!!!!!!!!

I think the OP is probably feeling very guilty about his/her income and financial situation.
By pretending that poverty doesn't exist perhaps makes them feel better.