To think there is not really any chikdren in poverty in the uk

[Domjolly]

I think last nights comic relief has really brought home to me and my family that there is not really any children in the uk who live in REAL poverty

There is not one child that has to walk 3 hours to school
There is not one child that cant get some form of education
There is not one child who can get medical intervention
I think you would be hard pressed to find familys which children who are homeless or who dont have clean water and sanitation

And i actaully now thing people who say this is insulting to children who do live in real poverty

Zwischenzug, have you heard about 'empathy' at all? Sounds like you need to look it up in a dictionary. You could also benefit from looking up the phrase 'walk a mile in another man's shoes'. Some people are really struggling even in work - especially on minimum wages.

It doesn't matter how much you juggle your spending if rent + council tax + utilities + food + transport to work comes to more than your income or just barely matches your income leaving nothing left over for unexpected difficulties, like your car breaking down (which you need to get to work) or both your kids needing new shoes.

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to grasp that people have different incomes. Seems quite obvious, Bill Gates is richer than David Cameron who is richer than the average teacher who is richer than the average shop assistant, who is richer than the average cleaner.

Life is hard for many people right now. Wages are flat and even if you get a rise, it's probably less than inflation. Energy bills, council tax (in many areas), food, transport are all getting more expensive. Oddly enough there are more people around given we've had a double dip recession and the economy is either flatlining or heading into a triple dip... surely anyone can grasp that fairly simple concept?

Zwi, how long have you been working and how many months wages have you in your account now?

'Cat, again, I'd love to see a budget from somebody in that sort of situation because I suspect anybody with a full-time job could re-evaluate their spending and save more than a tenner. Maybe they'd need to reduce expenses by moving to a cheaper place or evaluate other aspects of their living arrangements, but I really don't believe it can't be done. £50 for most people I don't think is out of the question. And after a few months you'll have a buffer to last you until your benefit claims are processed'

PMSL!!! Right there at the 'move to a cheaper area' - spray! What condescending, patronising guff! PLENTY of people with a full-time job can't save FA!

And where are all these cheaper areas to move to, so their cost of transport to work, assuming they can move somewhere cheaper and still be able to make it to their min wage job with its 24/7 shifts, oh, and find a LL who takes their partial LHA/HB or kids.

But of course, it's so much easier to lay blame at the poor and working poor, they are just feckless and don't know how to budget as well as you, that's why they can't save.

Bollocks.

DailyMail reader ?

I'd like to bet when you were living off 7p noodles, you didn't have any kids to feed or clothe.

A full time (37.5hr) NMW worker takes home £895 a month. £50 is not a huge amount of money in the context of that monthly pay. It is approx 5% of salary, and that doesn't include benefits or anything else. Are there really huge swathes of the country who have an absolute minimum spend of over 95% of salary every month? Strikes me as way too much of a coincidence that so many people claim their salary EXACTLY matches their minimum outgoings.

Cat, you say you are spending your savings to compensate for a rise in your expenses, that clearly isn't sustainable - presumably you have a plan to reduce your expenses before your savings run out?

more poor people around, I meant!

Of course I have. And also take whatever extra hours I can get at work, above my contracted hours.

I just think you are being obtuse. You have no empathy.

yeah, and out of that £895 comes rent, council tax, utilities, transport, food, clothes - can you not see how it mounts up? And can you not grasp that some people don't even have a job, let alone a full-time one? There are something like a million people who are 'under-employed' i.e. they want to work full-time but can only get part-time.

Do you not read/watch/listen to the news at all, ever?

'Are there really huge swathes of the country who have an absolute minimum spend of over 95% of salary every month? Strikes me as way too much of a coincidence that so many people claim their salary EXACTLY matches their minimum outgoings.'

Yes. Inflation has not fallen, and the cost of everything is rising, particularly power and heat, you know, to make food, bathe and avoid hypothermia.

But again, it's so much lazier just to blame those mugs on min wage. They're just feckless and too stupid. If they're poor, it's a) not really poverty b) their own fault.

I have plenty of empathy for situations where situations beyond a persons control has some damaging effect on their own or their families life. However with financial problems, it's all too common for people to plead poverty when they just haven't budgeted in a prudent manner.

The good ol' deserving poor theory! Wow. All those people who risked their lives, and lost them, to move our society out of Victorian ideals and it was for FA.

Even if you save a tenner a month its easily eaten up with shoes, uniform, something breaking. You never get ahead on that sort of wage.

I'm not actually pleading poverty. We're surviving and will continue to. I'm lucky because I've got a decent roof over my head, at a reasonable rent. Other people might be paying out £600 or more a month in rent though.

There are so many children I see in my work, who come to school with no breakfast. It might be that there was no money for bread or milk. Or may be some benefits have gone astray but then that leaves the family vulnerable to loan sharks, just to get some money to feed the kids and before you know it, you have a vicious circle of debt. It is very very easy to get in to debt just from one small crisis, like the cooker breaking down.

How is that within a person's control?

vulnerable to loan sharks

This is the crux of your argument really, and I don't see how you can say that deciding to take out debt is not within an individuals control. If somebody takes out a loan without anything in the pipeline that would allow them to pay it back, they are a mug. I do feel sorry for these people, but it's their financial literacy that has let them down, not a lack of money.

they meant to live without food or a cooker or shoes then zwischenzug? Clearly you have never been in this position.

No it's not the crux. But it does happen. So get a £20 loan or don't eat? Mmm what to do? But next week that £20 will have gone up and it becomes a cycle of debt.

What about managing to feed kids adequately without a cooker? Is that fine? Or should people go and get one on finance?

Yes, there are choices but for quite a lot of people living in poverty, it is Hobson's choice.

Living without a cooker temporarily isn't a big deal, I've done it myself (due do a dodgy landlord, not money issues). I'd certainly rather live off cold food than put myself in a position where losing my job would have me out on the street. School shoes cost £4 in wynsors, even a tenner a month more than covers that.

Yes, yourself. What about the kids? And it might take a long while to save enough for a new one.

What if there is no way to get to a cheap retail outlet, they are usually out of town for a start? So you have to buy whatever is cheapest but cheap shoes don't last anyway so it's a false economy half the time.

So get a £20 loan or don't eat?

Even you seemed to grudgingly agree than most people can save a tenner a month, so there should be no need for a £20 loan.

Children won't starve if their food isn't hot. Anyway tescos do microwaves for £30 IIRC. There are cheaper options than full-scale cookers.

Most people who are working, unless there is some crisis like a broken washer/cooker or whatever. Not if you're surviving on benefits.

Where are people going to get this £30?

Save it, if they haven't already. And stick to cold food in the meantime.

Of course children won't starve if their food isn't hot, but I'm not sure how good a diet they'd have if they never get a hot meal and surely a child who doesn't have decent hot food, is living in poverty?