Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Miss judgy pants strikes again

28 replies

Kremeykrisp · 15/03/2013 09:24

So am I?? Facebook friend posted a new pic showing her August baby off in her new forward facing car seat. It's lovely and pretty and pink but I really wouldn't, would you?

OP posts:
CookieLady · 15/03/2013 10:02

Seriously?? Biscuit

BearFrills · 15/03/2013 10:23

Maybe she's bought it in preparation for needing it but isn't actually using it yet?

Maybe her baby has outgrown her first size car seat?

Maybe she can't afford an extended rear facing car seat and this is the safest seat within her budget?

Maybe it's none of your business?

Feminine · 15/03/2013 10:25

Maybe op is correct though bear

the baby is in the wrong car seat.

For a picture fine, otherwise not!

LibertineLover · 15/03/2013 10:27

would she have been able to turn it round? ours is two way-able, maybe she jsut did it for the pic, regardless, none of your business.

Thumbwitch · 15/03/2013 11:16

Let's see - August baby, now March, that's 7m - is she in Australia? It's normal for babies to go forward facing here at 6m. I think it's dreadful and won't be doing that to my PSB, but plenty here do. The rear-facing capsules are tiny and are usually outgrown by 6mo, by which time they put them forward facing. :(

IneedAsockamnesty · 15/03/2013 11:20

Judge as much as you want,she should be obtaining correct safety advice regarding seat sizing and how you know when each seat is outgrown.

Was the photo captioned something like ' what a big girl I've got'?

MammaTJ · 15/03/2013 11:21

TNH, until I came on MN, I didn't know you could get rear facing car seats for over 6 month olds.

My youngest was 10lb 5 oz when born, so didn't stay in a rear facing seat for long, I think only until 5 months.

HerbyVore · 15/03/2013 11:21

A lot of them adapt with the child now from birth upwards, removeable moulding, changing from rear to forward facing.

I would be so quick to judge, - but no I wouldn't have had mine forward facing that young.

Kremeykrisp · 15/03/2013 11:21

It's the cosatto Moova group 1 car seat. Her baby looks smaller than my June baby who is still in her rearward facing seat. Anyway off to prise my bloomers from my arse.

OP posts:
HerbyVore · 15/03/2013 11:25

Oh I've just looked at it in 'Hello Dolly'

It's very pretty isn't it? Grin

whimsicalmess · 15/03/2013 11:56

My four month old has to be in a forward facing (albeit flat at the minute) buggy because of our circumstances,

opinions like this make me very anxious to leave the house Sad

oscarwilde · 15/03/2013 12:02

er - there are no safety regs about babies being in rear facing buggies whimsicalmess - that's just a lifestyle/personal choice Grin

I think our DD moved into forward facing at 10 months. Had completely outgrown the rear facing seat.. her knees were up around her ears. Maybe your friends baby has v long legs? None of our business either way, ultimately the child is in a childseat which is more than most of us were back in the 70's

maddening · 15/03/2013 12:06

It's not about ff buggies whim - the only argument I've heard about that is that it is nice to see dc.

Op is on about car seats.

Personally chose erf after researching it but other parents can do what they like.

I do however think that the guidelines are woolly and people do move to ff too early but likely due to mis-advice or lack of understanding.

MsElisaDay · 15/03/2013 12:38

Oh FFS OP. Not this old chestnut.
Why do you care? If your "friend" was transporting her child in a seat hewn from glass and nettles then fair enough, but - if her DD is 9kg - then she's following the instructions on the seat. These instructions aren't the be all and end all, no, but they are what most people in my acquaintance seem to go by.

FWIW, I'll be keeping my DS rear-facing as long as possible, but I haven't been a judgy-arse with friends who've put their DC forward facing as soon as they hit 9kg. Because it's none of my business.
They've probably got a lot to say about the way I do certain things (co-sleeping springs to mind) but each of us refrains from judging and just muddles through as best we can.

It does amaze me that people will just blithely buy a car seat because it's pretty, rather than fully reading all the safety info out there first. But then there you go. Each to their own. And as other posters have pointed out, at least the child is in a car seat - many of us weren't as kids.

Thumbwitch · 15/03/2013 14:15

Neck Injury in Forward-Facing Child Restraints
Facing a child forward for travel is not without risks, but too often it is seen by parents as a goal to be achieved as soon as possible. This goal is inappropriate, but misinformation and lack of understanding about the crash environment and child physiology have been difficult to overcome, even within the medical community. There has long been a concern in bioengineering literature that a child?s cervical spine could be pulled apart from the force on the head in a crash when the shoulders are held back.15 One popular misconception, however, is that muscle strength can overcome this force, and that a child who can hold up its head and sit erect is ?strong? enough to face a frontal crash.

In a 50 km/h (30 mph) crash with a 25-g passenger compartment deceleration, for instance, the head of a forward-facing adult or child may experience as much as 60 or 70 g, because the occupant?s head stops later and more abruptly than the vehicle?s floor pan. Even the strong neck muscles of military volunteers make little difference in such an environment. Rather it is the hardness of the vertebrae, in combination with the tightness of the connecting ligaments, that determines whether the spine will hold together and the spinal cord will remain intact within the confines of the vertebral column.42,107
Adult cervical spines can withstand severe tensile forces associated with decelerations up to 100g,76 and failure is nearly always associated with
fracture. On the other hand, the immature vertebrae of young children consist of both bony segments and cartilage, and the ligaments are loose
to accommodate growth.63,84 This combination allows the soft vertebral elements to deform and separate under crash conditions, leaving the spinal cord as the last link between the head and the torso. According to Huelke et al.,42 ?In autopsy specimens the elastic infantile vertebral bodies and
ligaments allow for column elongation of up to two inches, but the spinal cord ruptures if stretched more than 1/4 inch.? Mathematical models of pediatric spines (age 1, 3, and 6) subjected to various types of loading indicate that, compared to adult spines, the anatomical and material properties of immature spinal elements make them much more flexible than would be predicted by relative size alone.62 Stalnaker notes that the risk of spinal cord injury in children increases with crash severity and decreases with age.107

Accident experience has shown that a young child?s skull can be separated from its spine by the force of a crash,27 the spinal cord can be severed,41 or the child may live but suffer paraplegia or tetraplegia due to the stretched and damaged cord.67,113,122 Eleven cases studied in depth were included in the two 1993 reports. All children with severe injuries were 12 months old or younger, whereas others who suffered less severe injuries, such as C2 odontoid fractures, were over 18 months. All crashes were frontal (10 to 2 o?clock), with velocity changes ranging between 24 and 60 km/h (15 to 37 mph). It must be emphasized that these injuries appear to be rare, although there has been no recent attempt to estimate the risk of occurrence. Because of the potentially severe consequences, however, and the relatively simple countermeasure to such injury among the youngest children, it makes sense to keep them restrained rear-facing as long as possible (figure 12).

From www.carseat.org/Resources/Weber_CPCP.pdf page 12

SingSongMummy · 15/03/2013 14:20

Can I just point out that it has nothing to do with legs being squished - the baby had only outgrown the 1st stage car seat when the head is higher than the seat back. It doesn't matter at all if their legs are bent etc. it is very unusual for a child to need to move seats before 1 year, and I say that with two DD's who are 98th percentile in height!

Thumbwitch · 15/03/2013 14:20

I think that, in terms of specifically the neck loading of a too-young child in a forward facing seat, it would almost be safer to be unrestrained! Overall of course it wouldn't be safer to be unrestrained; but you wouldn't get that head movement forward, risking the integrity of the spinal cord.

In the 1970s (I was a child of then too), we would have been bodily flung off the back seat into the seats in front of us and quite probably broken things (we were carried in a carry cot on the back seat) but we wouldn't have been subjected to the stretch force of the spinal column.

I am NOT for one moment advocating no restraints - just saying that I think there is almost more danger in putting a too-young child in a forward facing seat.

Pigsmummy · 15/03/2013 18:04

My five month old is very long, in her first car seat, her legs are touching the seat and her knees are by her ears! When is is safe to get a forward facing one and what can we do in the meantime?

SquinkiesRule · 15/03/2013 18:47

Maybe she really doesn't know the dangers of forward facing a young baby even if they are heavy. Can you link her the you tube video that has the crash test dummies of infants forward facing then drop it. Maybe say just in case you hadn't heard and the link in a private message not out in public.

SquinkiesRule · 15/03/2013 18:49

Pigs, Long legs folded are not a problem, hips and broken legs can heal, internal decapitation doesn't. Leave her facing back as long as poss.

IneedAsockamnesty · 15/03/2013 20:11

There are infant rf car seats commonly available that are perfectly suitable for rf up to 12 months some even 18 months,

Children's legs are perfectly ok when bent or if in contact with the back of the seat,leg room should not even be a consideration for a baby car seat, safety is.

I cannot think of any car seat currently available on the market that you must ff as soon as they hit the minimum weight requirement to go ff or must stop using. Off the top of my head most group 0+ are intended to be suitable up to between 12 and 15 months and past the minimum ff weight.

You know your child has out grown the car seat when the top of his/ her head is above the seat back.or they are past the total weight limit for the seat

Lots of manufacturers don't tell you that the ff weight is a ff minimum weight they leave it so it looks like its a maximum rf weight because it suits them to have as many parents as possible blow another £80 ish on a new short term use seat that they don't need to buy. But doing so and putting it ff makes your baby less safe than not doing so.

The uk is one if the only country's that have car seat laws that allow ff so young most other places have a legal req to keep rf for much much longer.

I know on mn there are often heated debates about extended rear facing seats mainly I'm guessing because they are currently so bloody expensive that they are unattainable for many people and the people who can afford them often won't get that the costs are prohibitive for others and it tends to get emotive because people use phrases like "is your child not worth £240" then others get offended so everything goes tits up BUT

Using a normal standered group 0+/0-1 rf as long as possible is not extended rear facing and will not incur any additional costs and is legal.

Erf refers to specialist seats designed to be rf up to about 3 or some to 5 these seats are the norm most places outside the uk so much cheaper outside the uk but expensive inside the uk and sadly until our car seat laws are changed this will remain the case.

With car seats try to avoid biased manufacture generic advice ( other than just product related) seek out none biased info like the which car seat reports and advice.

And remember ff is not a development achievement.

BlueberryHill · 15/03/2013 20:29

Sock, great post.

IneedAsockamnesty · 15/03/2013 20:34

Thank you

maddening · 15/03/2013 20:38

If you want to you can get rf that lasts up to 4 yrs old. Erf seats are more expensive though.

We got an erf with isofix. The downside is the room left at the front passenger seat in a smaller car and the cost.

The upside is it is safer.

IneedAsockamnesty · 15/03/2013 20:57

Maddening Erf seats are available for children older than 4.

Pips there is some very useful info here

www.which.co.uk/baby-and-child/baby-transport/guides/choosing-a-child-car-seat/car-seat-weight-groups/