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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask who should pay for replacement guitar?

174 replies

SoldierKatnissEverdeen · 14/03/2013 18:55

Just want to canvass your opinions on the following situation...have tried to write the post without letting on which side I am coming from to get an unbiased opinion.

Today at school a guitar got broken. The child who owns the guitar is very upset. The child who broke the guitar is also upset. Both children are in yr 5 so aged 9 or 10.

The guitar was broken by a child doing that thing that boys do, of running, dropping to his knees and skidding. Didnt have enough control to stop himself and ended up falling forward with his full body weight on the guitar snapping it where the neck meets the body. It was a complete accident rather than a malicious act. The child apologised without any prompting.

The guitar was in the designated place, which tbh wasn't a great place. There was a teacher in the hall at the time, who didnt see it happen. I expect she was dealing with other children at the time.

The teacher does not know what the sch policy is for this type of situation and the head was unavailable.

My query to you wise lot, is who should pay for the guitar to be replaced?

OP posts:
GregBishopsBottomBitch · 14/03/2013 20:55

Yeah Digerd, in America you could sue, and more often than not, win it too.

Maryz · 14/03/2013 20:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

saintlyjimjams · 14/03/2013 20:59

There needs to be a safer place to leave the guitar in school. If it's in a mishmash of bags anyone could trip or stumble or dump a bag on top of it.

So now I'm on the fence.

:( for your dd though - is it possible to mend?

TattyDevine · 14/03/2013 21:02

As someone who recently started working in a school, in terms of supervision, the teacher or adult in charge was at fault to an extent. I'm not saying the boy was blameless, of course not, but the fact that it wasn't even seen smacks of either not enough adults per child ratio or the teacher not having class control.

If I had a child who was a bit of a live wire or lets just say a bit of a rotter, naughty, out of control, whatever you say - yes, I could tell them at home until I'm blue in the face - I could control then when they were with me whichever way I saw fit. But when they are not with me - and I am legally obliged to send them to school - I expect the teachers to avoid this kind of thing, within reason, so I'm not out of pocket too much from doing something I am legally obliged to do (sending my child to school).

Okay, so I don't have a rotter of a child who does stuff like this (thus far anyway!) and I agree the morally correct thing to do is pay for it if you have the money. But what if they break something every week?

Deep down I think the school supervision, storage, and insurance or accident fund should cover this. In a situation where a child was not really being adequately supervised, I feel.

Like I say I work in a school now and this just wouldn't happen - granted it is a small school with good stafff ratios but they are very careful, to the extent of slightly being annoying to work for!

TheChaoGoesMu · 14/03/2013 21:10

I think the school needs to take some responsibility because the place your dd was asked to store it was clearly not a very safe place. I guess your dd didn't have an option to store it somewhere safer. On the other hand part of me thinks that you should have insurance for it. I think a fair compromise for you, the boys parents and the school to split in 3 ways, and the school finds a safer place for these things to be stored in the future, you get insurance (or set money aside in place of insurance) and the boy learns to be more careful.

jollygoose · 14/03/2013 21:15

why should a child who has had an accident pay. I f you dropped a bottle of vodka in supermarket you wouldnt expect to pay would you. If the guitar was at school for a music lesson then it should be covered by insurance. Supposing the boy in question had hurt himself badly then perhaps he could have sued for damages as the guitar should not have been on the floor.

CloudsAndTrees · 14/03/2013 21:19

There is a chance that the school stated that instruments were brought into school at the owners risk at some point when the guitar lessons or whatever was being arranged.

TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 14/03/2013 21:30

Slightly on the fence - I would be mortified and expect to pay, but at certain times of the month (ie just before payday) might not be able to. Not precisely poor, just really shit with money. Still, I wouldn't avoid the issue. I would apologise to the other mum.

I'm not sure what I'd do if I genuinely couldn't afford to pay, full stop. Explain to the school, I suppose, and hope they could help.

Wolfiefan · 14/03/2013 21:34

Get an appointment to see the Head ASAP.

  1. This behaviour is unacceptable and dangerous. The teacher really didn't notice a child skidding at high speed across the floor? Really? Were the ratios appropriate?
  2. Your child can't be at fault if they left the guitar where they were told to. It was not in their charge at the time of the accident.
  3. Can you find out how much it would cost to replace? (If my DM had given this as a gift I think she'd want to come into school with me!)
  4. What consequence will the child face for this behaviour? (Don't believe school can make parent pay up!)
TooExtraImmatureCheddar · 14/03/2013 21:34

Jolly, it was a result of arsing around. The child didn't do it on purpose, but he wasn't behaving himself either. If you did a rock star slide on the supermarket and broke a bottle of vodka I would think you should pay off it. Supermarkets can afford to replace stuff, anyway. Schools are funded by govt and shouldn't spend funds on things like this.

schoolgovernor · 14/03/2013 21:36

Speak to the Headteacher, it is up to them to sort this out. I would be thinking along the lines of the school claiming on insurance, but would have to check that. Certainly, as your DD had done exactly what she was told, you should not have to bear the cost of buying a replacement.

zwischenzug · 14/03/2013 21:39

Maryz, yes I rather suspect the OP could buy a new guitar if they really wanted to. I really don't believe anyone can't save up or get hold of £80-100 in the space of a month or two if they really wanted to.

But that's besides the point really, because morally the OP isn't the one who should be paying for a new guitar.

FakePlasticLobsters · 14/03/2013 21:40

It's not really an accident in the same way it would have been if he had just tripped and fallen over it or onto it though.

It was unintentional, but he still took a running slide at a pile of other people's belongings.

I really feel for him, because I'm sure he didn't mean to break anything, but he did and it shouldn't be the responsibility of the school or the OP to pay for his mistake.

blackeyedsusan · 14/03/2013 21:42

I think the school has some responsibility to ensure that the guitar was stored in a safe place. it was not. they also have responsibility to ensue childen are behaving.

you best bet is to see the head teacher about it and complain about where the guitars are stored and supervision. I doubt that you will be able to get the money from the other mother.

£80 is a lot of money for some people. school unifom costs 50p- a £1 per item in the second hand shop, it does not follow that if you can afford that you can afford a guitar. the op can't afford to replace it.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 14/03/2013 22:13

Astounded at some of the responses on here! Zwischenzug: Hmm

Original poster
SoldierKatnissEverdeen · 14/03/2013 22:18

Wow so many responses! Thank you.

Someone asked about the lessons, they have an outside teacher come in but it is organised through the school and all the info comes on sch headed notepaper if that makes any difference?

On further thought about how I would handle it if it had been my child that broke it, I think I would be asking the sch to set up an arrangement where they pay the family now, and I would pay them back in small affordable instalments. So the child wouldnt be without and my child would somehow fund that money, through chores, ebaying anything they had of value, etc. But I would def have apologised to the child and parent immediately.

Psyching myself up to do battle with the head in the morning....

OP posts:
CheerfulYank · 14/03/2013 22:30

Marking my place...good luck OP.

bloodyschool · 15/03/2013 08:42

why should the boy's parents pay? In what way were they negligent?

bloodyschool · 15/03/2013 08:46

This cut and paste is the legal position

''Liability of Parents and Carers

In England and Wales, parents or carers are not liable for the damage that their children cause.

But this does not mean that the parents (or carers) are personally negligent in not properly controlling the children. The fault is then theirs in failing to prevent an accident. In the case of a young child accompanied by an adult, it could be that the adult would be held wholly or partly responsible.

If the child was escorted by a responsible adult at the time of the accident, it may be possible to take legal action against the adult, if it can be shown that the adult acted neglectfully by failing to oversee the child properly. For instance, a parent who does not control children in a car, to the disadvantage of other road users, will also be held responsible.
Even if the child was not escorted by an adult, it may be possible to take legal action against an adult for failing to oversee the child at the time of the accident.''

Maryz · 15/03/2013 08:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhTheConfusion · 15/03/2013 09:03

Yes the child behaved inappropriately and yes the guitar needs replaced but I would bot be asking my children to 'ebay anything of value' If I could not afford to replace it.

If the parent has any sense of decency they will offer to pay something towards a replacement, I certainly would offer to replace the guitar. The boy was messing around but he did not break the guitar in a malicious fashion, it was clearly accidental. The school should not have items of value that children are asked to bring into school left on the floor in a corridor... I think my issue would be with the school.

1charlie1 · 15/03/2013 09:23

When I was 11, and renting from the school a lovely cello, I arrived in the music room for orchestra practice, and upon taking my instrument out of its' (soft) case, found the neck completely broken. I was horrified, and was told by the school I would have to pay for it to be repaired. My parents never questioned this - the instrument was in my name, and it was broken. A couple of days later a younger boy came to me, and confessed that he'd been messing about in the music room, and had fallen against my cello, breaking it. He admitted his responsibility, and told his mother, who told him to tell me/ my parents that she would be paying for the repairs. Even at the time, I was impressed at his honesty.

Of course the child who broke your DD's instrument should pay for its repair! What is it with adults endlessly passing the buck to 'the school'. Why should teachers have to hover over their charges (an impossible task anyway), anticipating every silly action? Where is the sense of helping kids develop a proper sense of action = consequence? Not a helpful contribution to the creation of responsible, honorable future adults!

FakePlasticLobsters · 15/03/2013 09:24

I think it was the large school hall, rather than a corridor, and the things had been stored at one end of it, away from the choir practice they were having there.

It should have been safe enough, choir practice isn't a rough activity, it's not like they expected children to be running about or playing sport next to it or anything.

DublinMammy · 15/03/2013 13:34

Another vote for the skidder's parents paying but it doesn't sound likely. Perhaps going through the school will shame the mother into it? Hard luck for you daughter, hope you can sort out another guitar for her somehow.

Tabliope · 15/03/2013 14:29

The parents of the boy that broke it should pay. They're 9 or 10. He is old enough to know running inside the school is against the rules never mind running and sliding along the floor.