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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to wonder which formula company sponsored this article?

315 replies

nittynittynora · 12/03/2013 19:49

yano.co.uk/2013/03/breast-is-best-or-is-it/

It just seems so anti-breastfeeding! Surely the health benefits of BFing are proven - there's nothing political about saying that it protects against disease, for example.I agree that of course you can form a close bond with your baby when FFing but the rest of the article seems determined to bat away all the 'supposed' benefits of BFing and focus on any perceived 'cons'.

OP posts:
ICBINEG · 15/03/2013 19:29

chund I thought I was following you but now I'm not sure. Are you saying that if a study compares middle class babies some of which are FF and some of which are BF and finds a difference in SIDS rate, that that somehow isn't likely to apply to babies in other socioeconomic groups?

Or are you assuming that there are no cases of SIDS in middle class babies and hence all the SIDS data is from deprived babies and all the controls are middle class? The study I cited was a case matched study which I think means that you have to compare like for like and find a matching baby for each SIDS baby in the study. Sadly there are more than enough middle class babies dying from SIDS across large populations over several years to mean that a representative number of none deprived babies are in the study. Equally there are more than enough deprived babies who are EBF to make up that control group again when you look across the whole population and a number of years.

I live in the NE and have met many EBF babies from some of the poorest backgrounds you are likely to find in the UK...so it does happen!

I don't think any extrapolation or mismatch of control and sample has to be done when the numbers of participants are high enough.

Chunderella · 15/03/2013 20:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

myrubberduck · 15/03/2013 20:14

Most of the evidence supporting appreciable medium or long term benefits of bf rely on observational studies which are subject to confounding. All of the counfounding factors (maternai IQ, smoking, income age) point one way (beneficial effects) and it is just not possible to be sure that all confounders have been identified or adjusted for appropriately.

If only there were a study based on randomised control testing!

Well there is. PROBIT. desigend by Prof Michael Kramer, posibly the most respected expert in this field. They got around the ethical dilemma by randomising bf promotion rather than bf itself. The children whose mothers were subjected to ( had the benefit of..) intensive bf promotion had significantly more bm than those in the control group, and significantly more exlusivly bf for longer

The results make for interesting reading.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2034727/

no effect on allergy. Actually found that exclusive bf increased sensitivity to common allergens such as grass pollem

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19106322

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23483175

No effect on obesity or markers pointing towards diabetes

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18065591

no effect on blood pressure height or weight

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19710187
Summary of results at 6 years old- Non of commonly claimed health benefits observed at 6 years old

I could go and find some of the many studies which show that bf is "associated with" an INCREASE in rates of asthma and ezcema but I have to have my dinner!

chandellina · 15/03/2013 20:22

There are so many bigger health issues to get worked up about. Our children face major health problems from diets full of sugar and a lack of exercise.

Baby milk is such a minor factor in any health outcome in this country - don't waste your time obsessing over it.

The breastfeeding message has 100 percent penetration, formula advertising is minimal, and women will make their own informed decisions. So what's the problem?

ICBINEG · 15/03/2013 20:36

chand because many women don't make informed decisions in spite of the current BF promotion and supposedly minimal advertising.

Some women do, but many women don't.

ChairmanWow · 15/03/2013 20:38

chandellina I agree wholeheartedly. The multiple posts referring to studies show exactly what the problem is - no causal link has been proven which demonstrates improved health outcomes for either group. Therefore there is a wealth of conflicting 'evidence' out there which can be drawn on by either side of the debate.

Above all it saddens me to see women moralising about other women's parenting and the choices (or not) we make for our bodies.

crashdoll · 15/03/2013 20:41

ICBINEG I know, what a shame that not everyone is as intelligent and informed as you. Sad I mean the reason for women not choosing BF must be because they are misinformed. There certainly are not women out there able to make the informed decision not to BF.

Mylittlepuds · 15/03/2013 20:44

But surely if there were no health benefits of BFing health organisations across the globe wouldn't waste money promoting it? I'm sure MNetters haven't singlehandedly proven BFing is of no benefit in comparison to ff (no offence myrubberduck).

What the hell is in it for them?

ICBINEG · 15/03/2013 20:44

Okay I give up.

I posted studies that show high quality data linking FF to SIDS. I have made reference to studies that show the mechanism for FF to influence SIDS rates. It is universally acknowledged that NEC in prems is causally increased by exposure to FM through it's affect on the undeveloped gut.

If this is going to be interpreted as "there is no evidence" then wtf is the point.

Yes OF COURSE women are making INFORMED choices...especially with you bunch to tell them to ignore the medical evidence coz it doesn't really exist.

Well I hope to god that no one listens to you over the medical evidence and then loses a baby. Still as long as no one feels moralized at it probably doesn't matter if there is some collateral damage does it?

ICBINEG · 15/03/2013 20:46

crashdoll when I said that some women make an informed decisions but others don't...I meant it.

How you can interpret that as me saying that "there aren't any women who can make informed decisions" is truly beyond me.

Learn to fucking read.

chandellina · 15/03/2013 20:47

Well I came far too close to losing a baby because I was breastfeeding - a very real risk in the early days compared with formula feeding - so do piss off please.

crashdoll · 15/03/2013 20:49

ICBINEG Ah, I see patronising is your default mode.

BlackMaryJanes · 15/03/2013 20:51

a very real risk in the early days compared with formula feeding

What do you mean by that?

chandellina · 15/03/2013 20:53

Or in other words, ask an A&E pediatrician how many babies are admitted in the first weeks of their life for dehydration or weight loss from breast milk vs. formula milk.

BlackMaryJanes · 15/03/2013 20:55

chandellina Do you have a source for that?

And even if it were true, it's not down to breastfeeding per se, it's down to incorrect technique by the mother (not feeding on demand, not establishing proper latch, and so on).

Chunderella · 15/03/2013 20:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

chandellina · 15/03/2013 21:02

I don't know if the data are collected because it would be so damaging to the breastfeeding message.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 15/03/2013 21:04

I think that's a bit harsh on the mother saying it's down to incorrect technique.
I'd just say it was due to breastfeeding not becoming properly established, and think it's the responsibility of those supporting the mother to do all they can to ensure breastfeeding is securely established.
I was lucky my DC's both took to BFing like ducklings to water ... honestly they seemed to know what to do even when I knew very little. Other people have a much harder time of it. Much of it due to luck and physiology I'm sure.

cherryvanillajam · 15/03/2013 21:07

ICBINEG, I would give up, I have. There is absolutely nothing you can say to people like this, they do not want to hear it.

We know that the overwhelming evidence points to breastfeeding being far better for babies and mothers than formula. If so, governments and organisations would not waste their money on promoting it!

But hey, these guys know better than all the top health advisors and scientists and researchers. Leave them in their little bubble, you are just going to make yourself cross and waste your evening.

Chunderella · 15/03/2013 21:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kazooblue · 15/03/2013 21:17

My dd ended up in SCBU,consultant livid and said they saw several.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 15/03/2013 21:19

I'm sorry to hear of your experiences in the early days with your baby chandellina, that must have been so scary x

Kazooblue · 15/03/2013 21:20

No Cherry it's not far better in this country.The stats are tiny as are any risks and research is often flawed or discredited further down the line which is why many women chose to use the good alternative to bfing that we have.

cherryvanillajam · 15/03/2013 21:23

That's right, Chunderella. I don't really understand the evidence. Neither do any of the promoters of breastfeeding, or health boards, and governments, and huge health organisations, apparently. Only you are clever enough and special enough to see what everyone else cannot, you and a few others who have their own, personal agenda. YOUR time should be spent writing to the health secretary and other important people to tell them to stop wasting taxpayers money on promoting something that's really not that special!

BlackMaryJanes · 15/03/2013 21:25

I think that's a bit harsh on the mother saying it's down to incorrect technique.

It's the facts. People need to hear the facts.

So many people presume breastfeeding is innately 'faulty', that women have 'broken breasts' and this is simply not true. The technique of breastfeeding has been lost through generations of formula feeding.