to wonder which formula company sponsored this article?

[nittynittynora]

yano.co.uk/2013/03/breast-is-best-or-is-it/

It just seems so anti-breastfeeding! Surely the health benefits of BFing are proven - there's nothing political about saying that it protects against disease, for example.I agree that of course you can form a close bond with your baby when FFing but the rest of the article seems determined to bat away all the 'supposed' benefits of BFing and focus on any perceived 'cons'.

[Cuddlydragon]

Ah, I see, the proven scientific approach of if someone disagrees with your evangelism, then sulk....or be particularly repugnant and suggest your baby will die.

[Kazooblue]

Cherry in the scheme of things not much money is spent by the gov on promoting bfing for the simple reason the benefits aren't big enough.I suspect they spend waaaaay more on promoting kicking smoking or the healthy eating initiatives as the risks of smoking or eating crap food are actually huge by comparison and reliably well researched.

[Kazooblue]

Black people have struggled to bf for years,babies used to die as they didn't have the fab clean alternatives we have today.

[Mylittlepuds]

No WAY!

Promoting BFing "probably won't do much harm."

Ha! Have you even read that back? How utterly, utterly ludicrous that sounds?

When it all works (the milk is not affected by drugs, there isn't low supply etc etc) the make up of breast milk is better than the make up of formula. It's like comparing a healthy diet of fruit and veg to one supplemented by vitamin pills. No comparison. This is why billions are spent extolling the benefits.

Breastfeeding is not always best when you take into consideration other factors however - the wellbeing of the mother, potential problems the baby may have feeding etc.

To use a weird example...if someone was allergic to fruit and veg then the vitamin pill woud be better for them. But that doesn't mean the vitamin pill is better - just better for them.

So....

Optimum breast milk is better than formula. Fact. But is breastfeeding better than formula feeding? Not necessarily - as breastfeeding involves far, far more factors than just the milk.

Two separate issues. But let's not be silly and compare breast milk with f.

[Mylittlepuds]

Sorry Chund - you've lost me.

[Kazooblue]

Mylittlepuds don't think your vitamin analogy really works.

[ChairmanWow]

chandellina Exactly what happened to my DS. Admitted to hospital with dehydration. His blood sugar was 1.6. The doctor told us that had he been left another day the outcome could have been catastrophic. He was on a drip for days. Such a distressing thing to go through. Formula saved him and he's been thriving since he was a month or so old (when I stopped trying to bf).

I guess there's no room for those of us who tried and weren't successful in such a debate. We have to endure the guilt of 'failure' and the persistent claims (not causally linked) of poorer health outcomes for our children. All I can say is don't let these threads get you down. If anything threads like these make me glad to have a pragmatic and sensible view on feeding.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

Not all black people live in developing countries kazoo

• but I too am deeply saddened and shocked by the challenges facing those (of whatever skin colour) raising their children and babies in challenging conditions in developing countries - and seriously hindered in this task by the marketing practices of formula milk manufacturers

[Kazooblue]

I feel no guilt,not a jot.There are waaaaay more bigger things worth feeling guilty about on the mothering journey.

[Kazooblue]

I was referring to blackmary

[Mylittlepuds]

Why doesn't it work?

[Kazooblue]

It just doesn't and are you sure it's billions in this country, I thought it was 9p per baby.

[JugglingFromHereToThere]

I thought it was a good analogy Mylittlepuds - personally I think some of kazoo's posts have been a little odd, especially the one that started "black people ..." but she probably means no harm I guess.

[Kazooblue]

As I said I was answering Blackmary's post.

[Mylittlepuds]

Oh well then - you've said it doesn't so therefore it doesn't

I didn't say billions in the UK either. Billions globally.

Yes Juggler I thought that odd.

[chandellina]

Thanks juggling, and thanks chairman - your experience also sounds scary. My daughter was also literally saved by formula after losing 17 percent of her body weight in 11 days, so I have made it my business to be well informed on the debate. I do not reject breastfeeding as a fantastic and normal feeding method, and even after my daughter was on formula is continued to mix feed for six months, starting each feed with the breast. I breastfed her older brother for 18 months. (although he also had weight gain issues but not life threatening)

My sister in law is a LaLeche leader and I was breastfed myself. Every single one of my friends breastfed. Breastfeeding is a wonderful thing, and indeed I once thought it worth convincing women it was an imperative. Reading the research, talking to doctors, becoming aware of other forms of nutrition affecting children far more, plus my own experience and those of others, all brought me to my current position.

[Kazooblue]

For the last time. I was answering Blackmary's post. Tis not that difficult to comprehend.

[updatedme]

The PROBIT trial ? mentioned above ? did find a reduction of gastroenteritis in BF babies. From what I?ve read, the evidence regarding the benefits of breastfeeding on some outcomes (gastroenteritis, resp infection, necrotising enterocolitis) seems pretty compelling. I agree though that some other benefits to BF have been oversold, and the results from PROBIT back this up.

Re. association and causation. RCTs are practically impossible to conduct in many cases, but that doesn?t mean we can?t seek alternative high quality evidence. For example, the association between smoking and lung cancer was never tested in an RCT (correct me if I?m wrong) ? the evidence came from good quality observational studies. Causation is near impossible to prove without laboratory standard experiments, but after rigorously assessing evidence from multiple good quality studies, and taking various other factors into account (e.g. potential biological mechanisms), surely we can begin to think about causal relationships?

[Kazooblue]

Surely some of the gastro risks must be down to sloppy bottle preparation and hygiene which is a choice.

[ICBINEG]

Hey all - I have had a think and a calm down and an epiphany.

See I do/did have a vested interest in believing in the data and the NHS, WHO and UNICEF message as I have devoted some serious time to training as a peer supporter. I chose to do that via unpaid leave from work because I wanted to help mothers I thought (and who constantly tell me) are currently being let down by the system. So I'm naturally somewhat resistant to the idea it was all a big fucking waste of time. To be honest it hurt more than a little to consider that possibility.

But at the end of the day those of you saying that there is no cast iron causal proof that FM is riskier to babies than BM may well be right. All the current medical evidence may yet be some cosmic coincidence/joke. Hell, maybe it IS better to listen to an ex-dailymail hack telling you something you want to hear than a HCP telling you some inconvenient "truths". Maybe feelings and anecdote ARE more important than the current state of the trial data.

Either way it is clearly stupidly stubborn to continue as a peer supporter in the absence of truly incontrovertible evidence that BFing makes any serious difference to babies health. The mere existence of peer supporters is surely piling even more guilt pressure on mum's who found them selves unable to BF and for no provable gain.

So go ahead...spread the meme that the evidence is shaky and happy mum is happy baby. I will pull my nose out of others business (although to be fair, sitting in a baby cafe and listening to anyone who chooses to come along with something they want to say isn't the ultimate in nose poking IMHO and we aren't allowed to give advice...only quote data - which I can no longer do with any certainty) and leave you all to it.

[Kazooblue]

Great!

[Mylittlepuds]

Your current position being? Breast is not always best?

Clearly it's not always best - your situation being a clear cut example - but generally if all works out for mothet and baby it is?

Why would anyone take offence at a general message highlighting that? Surely if it doesn't work out for whatever reason that's that?

Yes be angry at strange people who say you should have carried on regardless but not at a general breastfeeding is good message?

[Kazooblue]

Is that to me?

I certainly don't have a problem with breast is best.

Thousands of things are best for our babies and children which I don't do and certainly don't mind being reminded of.Bfing is just one way down the bottom of a very long tedious list.My kids eat chorizo and salami which I suspect has a far bigger health risk but I don't object to the risks of processed meat being promoted-within reason(not a fan of hysteria).

I do however have a problem with stat twisting,scaremongering,lack of perspective and over inflation.

[chandellina]

I think it was to me but thanks Kazoo for answering. That about sums up how I feel.