To think the Head Teacher shouldn't have said this

[WorriedMumof3]

I've been so worried about my DD2 9 yo for years.

I finally posted in Special Needs last week andvgotbsome great advice.

I spent the whole weekend crying, worrying and talking about things with a close friend and DH.

We finally decided that her problems needed addressing. I think she has some aspergers traits. It's affecting our everyday life I.e. DD has such poor social skills she has no friends, has been bullied (school have tried to sort this out). She is becoming more withdrawn, just sits in her room reading/writing all the time etc. she as bad temper tantrums, lashes out and will only wear certain clothes. The list goes on and on.

Anyway after a traumatic weekend and finally reaching the conclusion that there was a bigger problem, I emailed the school and asked for a meeting with the Head. I didn't ask to see her teacher as she just completely talks over me the whole time and I never get a word in edge ways.

I'm quite a passive compliant person so this is a big deal for me.

It is a new Head teacher who started after half term, so only in post a few weeks. She called me to find out why I wanted the appointment. I said I would rather speak to her in person and with my DH. Anyway, after much cajoling on her part, I finally told her about my worries regarding DD. She replied 'well, there is nothing wrong with her as far as I can see, but come in anyhow and we'll see what we can do' Or words to that effect.

I am completely deflated. I think we will be in for a long battle, and maybe it's not worth it after all..

Was this an appropriate thing to say, or am I over reacting? I'm quite emotional anyhow o not sure?

A bit insensitive of her, but if you're going to push for ASD assessment, I'm afraid you'll need to toughen up as it's likely you will face many more people (professional and not) saying very similar.

I hope she takes your concerns seriously. If not, speak to your GP.

Go to your GP. Express your concerns and ask for your dd to be referred for assessment.

Schools can be bloody awful places to get anyone to help. I'd try and find out who the SENCO at school is as well and tell them your thoughts as they might have a better idea of help.

meant very kindly;

you will need to toughen up and develop some resilience in sorting this out.

ht may think this, may be a standard reaction, may be useless, might be great and a brilliant advocate. you do not know.

go to the meeting with a list of concerns, ask for advice- also arrange to see gp. my sister who has a child with complex needs found GP excellent in getting his diagnosis.

You don't need her permission to get a referral from your GP.

The head teacher is probably the last person who will be able to help. Your DD's class teacher and the school SENCO will be much more aware of your DD's progress in school and her socialisation skills.

Your GP won't help either without a report from the school outlining their concerns and asking for a referral; otherwise you can get a referral for assessment from the school nurse.

I've been back and forth over my DS2 between his own teacher who says she recognises lots of ASD traits in him and also one of the senior staff who dismissed me because his grades had caught up since he'd been in a special, smaller class. It's been a battle and I've had to toughen up lots, but we finally got the referral last week.

I second seeing the GP but try to worry less. You need to be strong for DD now and getting in a tiz about a silly HT with no sensitivity isn't worth it.

make a list of things which you want to mention...go over them with DH and remember to stay calm.

Maybe she picked up on your distress and was trying to be reassuring. Its not unreasonable for her to find out what you wanted to talk about - heads are superbusy and she was probably checking to see if she was the right port of call. Don't read too much into this.

Don't worry- it is possible that she may have been trying to assuage your anxieties, albeit in a cack-handed way.

I would go to the meeting and explain your concerns then. There is no way she can know that your DD is fine after only a few weeks in post, and she should know that. The fact that she is open to a meeting is positive.

PM me if you would like any advice ahead of the meeting (am an advisory teacher)

Thanks everyone for your advice. I suspect the Head isn't the best person to talk to, but I want the school on side and I literally cannot bear her teacher. I know I will have to deal with her at some point though. It's a very small school so I would anticipate the head to get to know the pupils quite quickly.

The thing is - if DD doesn't have any additional needs, then great. How do I explain how she has no friends or social skills then, and why are the school not addressing that?

I will call the GP as soon as I build up the courage. It seems like a big step for some reason

tethers thank you for your offer of help. I will mail you when I get the laptop out as its quicker.

DD currently crying as she said she tried to mingle with some girls today and they told her to go away. She's so miserable. I just want her to get the help and support she needs. She isn't getting it at present.

There are children who suffer from the kind of insidious bullying by exclusion that can result in them being friendless.

Name calling, general meaness over time can become a habit for the others.

Would you consider a change of school if DD has no special needs but is simply being bullied?

What were her early years at the school like?

Have you seen her socialising? What do you think the problem is? Does she speak and act appropriately for her age?

You need to fight the battle on more than one front.

School: as you are doing, speak to HT and SENCO. Push for referral to Educational Psychologist. Read up on the code of conduct (do a trawl of the SN boards for more details here, I'm Scotland so it's different). Look at the IPSEA website too. Understand what support can be offered - there are different levels.

GP: you absolutely don't need school to refer you, and indeed school can't diagnose ASD - it is a 'medical' thing. Go and see the GP and ask for a referral to a developmental peadiatrician. You will need to push hard for this and there will be a waiting list. Use this time to start a diary, noting issues, problems, etc.

Home: If you think your daughter has ASD, in any shape or form, start treating her as if she does. That means putting in place the strategies that will help her. Again, lots of info on this in the SN board. It took us 2 years to get a diagnosis. I really wish someone had told me that it would do no harm to start doing stuff straight away - that's my single biggest regret actually, that we lost those 2 years. Crack on and start making changes.

The other thing is very few teachers are skilled at picking up SN. It's not their fault really, they don't get the training. So rather than fighting about labels with school (for now) you need to ask open questions:

'I noticed yesterday DD was crying because she had been excluded from a game, and I'm aware this happened last week too. What support can we give her to stop this happening in the future?'

Good luck

MrsMushroom we've thought of a change of school but logistically it would be difficult (other DCs). Also, I fear I would just be moving the problem.

She can be quite 'in your face'. I can't really think of a better way to phrase it. I can see how it could be perceived by other children. She doesn't bond well with girls - instead she chooses to run around with boys who just seem irritated by her. If someone says. Something nice, she thinks they are her best friend then pesters them. She's ok one to one, but flounders badly in group scenarios.

I was constantly called in whilst she was in reception for bad disruptive behaviour (rolling on carpet and the like). She even hit the (old) head with a hockey stick .

She did outgrow this behaviour though as she got older.

She hasn't been to a party in 3 years which breaks my heart. It's so noticeable (there are 2 mums that don't speak to me although I don't know why). It was one of these children that told her to go away today.

Oh, sorry, to answer your post the HT may not have noticed anything. Girls are much, much better at masking the symptoms of ASD (if it is ASD). If she's only been in post a few weeks I would imagine she hasn't got to know the children very well yet.

One thing my parents did for me when I was about this age and feeling excluded was they found outside sources of interest and different social groups. I don't know if this is possible or practical for you, but just wanted to make the suggestion. I started playing a musical instrument and joined a group of hotch potch kids all who were a bit odd like myself, but in different ways and with a range of ages. It meant that all of us really became confident about who we were and didn't feel the need to fit in so desperately and then that confidence showed in other places - i.e school and took the pressure off a bit.

write it down

make a list of things which concern you. Be specific, so rather than 'I am concerned about her social skills' say ' her social skills are poor because she cannot do X or Y and when Z happens she reacts in Q way instead of Z way which is more normal'

When it is written, you can hand it to the head if you get flustered.

if head says there are no SN, then ask her how the school is going to help her with these issues as it is effecting her education?

Also, maybe I am talking out of turn, but if you know that she's "in people's faces" and doing things that are not liked by many people, you could try and tell her how to behave in social situations? I had to do this on a very small scale with DS2. He didn't realise (even though he has two siblings) that not everyone wants to talk about what he wants to talk about. At home, his siblings just told him to be quiet, but obviously at school the other children just ignored him. It really was like flicking a switch. As soon as he knew how to behave, he was much happier. We still talk through school situations as a family at dinner to see how we each would deal with different situations.

Good luck with your HT meeting. I hope you get some resolution.

OP stand your ground and push for an assessment. Everyone told me that my daughter did not have AS. Her teachers were adamant, the school nurse, counsellor, the headteacher. The school doctor was open minded as he admitted he didn't know about AS in girls. She finally got her diagnosis when she was 15. The specialist who tested her said afterwards that him and his team knew straight away that it would be confirmed. She doesn't fit the stereotype of AS but she is very typically of a girl with AS to people who really know their stuff.

The lowest point for me was when she was 10 and was so lonely and isolated and her headteacher said it was her fault. Apparantly the other children were only horrible to her because she kept trying to join in with them. If she stopped and left them all alone, they wouldn't need to be mean to her. :(

As the head has only been in her post since half term, she can't have got to know your dd that well yet. Even if it's a small school. I wonder if she just wanted to appear knowledgeable about the children by saying "'well, there is nothing wrong with her as far as I can see." Maybe she just blurted it out as she knows who your daughter is and hadn't realised there is a problem yet. I'd reserve judgement until after the meeting as she may take your concerns seriously and end up being helpful. Well done for making the first move to get help for your daughter

Just read back a bit and Wilson Fricket gave some useful advice re helping your daughter.

Worriedmum, I can really recommend a book, The Unwritten Rules of Friendship, by Natalie Elman, which has excellent strategies to help children make friends.
As others have said, you probably won't get an easy ride with the school - if only through ignorance on their part; most primary school teachers are not well briefed, and in fact after my DS's diagnosis they decided they were going to give the teachers training on ASD issues: unbelievably, it consisted of someone coming in at break time and handing out leaflets!
Do find out who the school SENCO (special educational needs coordinator) is and deal with them - they should have at least some knowledge of the issues facing your DD. When I was fighting to get my DS assessed, my biggest allies were my GP and the paediatrician she referred me to; the ed pysch who assessed him was helpful in a remote sort of way too. Once he had a diagnosis, the National Autistic Society helpline was very useful for advice on getting a statement - might be worth looking at their website to see if any of the coping strategies on there are helpful for your DD.
The thing the ed psych told me that has really stayed with me is, 'You will have to tell him over and over again things that other children just pick up automatically.' It's true even now when it comes to social situations.
Please don't despair. I remember when my DS was 6, his teacher told me she had run out of children to pair him with - none of them wanted to be with him. By the time he was 10 he had some really good friends - and a lot of his behaviours were like the ones you describe. Now he's 15 and has a group of quirky, funny and intelligent friends. I'm sure your DD will get there in the end.

When we had worries about our son we got excellent advice from our local parent partnership service. They even offered to attend a meeting at school with us to help raise our concerns. I would track down your local one and get them to help you.

Thanks everyone. So much useful advice here. I think I will call the school and ask for the SENCO to be present at our meeting (I don't even know if they have one?).

Wilson thanks for all your advice. I am going to make a list to go in with and will leave this with them after the meeting. I'm unsure what strategies to put in place now? What sort of things do you think helped your DC before the diagnosis. I will have a look at the SN boards too.

WestieMamma So sorry to hear about your DD. I hope she is OK now. It is heartbreaking what our children have to suffer every day. I worry about the impact this will have on them as adults.

To everyone else, thanks for taking the time to reply. Your advice is invaluable. I guess the HT just threw me a bit. I will get stronger!

Well nothing helped us before diagnosis because we didn't do anything and your DD is older and will have different issues but some of the things I'm talking about are:

Transitions: DS used to have the screaming abdabs during transitions, so now we're very clear about telling him what's happening next and when, and we give him 'warnings'. So if he's at the park, he gets a warning that it's time to go in 2 minutes then 1 minute then we go.

Control: this is DS biggest issue, he has to be in control, be right, have the last word, etc. So we give him control in controlled ways - eg he gets two choices of what he wants to eat for his tea, but obviously he doesn't get to choose not to eat tea. We try not to engage in arguments because that then becomes a battle for control - so it's better not to engage at all. (this is a hard one...!)

Socially: lots of practice to help him deal with social situations, role play, helping him manage situations. Social stories. Talking about what happened in the playground and acting out doing it differently.

That's just some of the things we've done and are doing, but obviously every child is different...

sorry! I meant could have helped DS before diagnosis.

Thanks for the pointers. You know, I think we subconsciously do some of these things already - the choices one for example.

I think the social pointers is a good one, but I really need to get the school on side with this - they've been a bit lacking so far. DD doesn't tell anyone at school how she is feeling, she bottles it all up for home. So they don't see a problem.