To be continuously astonished at the nasty things separated partners do to each other.

[Smartiepants79]

I have clearly lead a very sheltered life.
No one I count as family or close friends has been through a divorce.
The stuff I read on here amazes and saddens me.
How can people treat someone they once loved in these ways?
Especially when children are caught up in the middle.

People who do try to hurt the other partner, even if they are the wronged party, are not really good people at heart, IMO, or care much about their children if they have them. I really don't agree with you. I love my daughter more than anything in the world and am a good and caring person. I have been lied about, had my character defamed, been controlled both financially and emotionally and other things I wouldn't even go into on a public forum. I've also seen my child be let down and not looked after the way she deserves by someone who should be all these things to her but is utterly consumed by his own selfishness. If at times I've snapped and wanted to hurt him that makes me human not a bad person at heart.

It all depends how you define love doesn't it?

In my case, I don't think my ex defines "love" in the way that I do. His idea of love and my idea of love are two different things.

Spot on Freddie. Some "types" of abusive men don't marry for love but because they think they've found someone who will cook, clean, bear their children and provide sex whenever they feel like it. Others think love is about control and submission. Or they think that women need looking after/to be told what to do for their own good. Others expect a ridiculously high level of loyalty to the point that friendships and relationships outside the marriage are discouraged (including family). The similarity between all abusers is that they have a skewed worldview and they believe this so strongly that they feel it is acceptable to use force, manipulation or control in order to maintain their particular idea of what love/a relationship is.

And FWIW I don't think my children have lost out by my divorce. I think they have gained a mother who is happy, smiling, not downtrodden and ground down, has a life and a career and is a shining example of what can be when you finally escape from one of these men.

I am 100x the person I was when I was married. And I don't regret for one second leaving.

And my ex sees me setting boundaries and not letting him fuck me over as me being manipulative and unfair and oh it's all about him him him. Poor him.

I treat him with the contempt he deserves and has earned every ounce of. And I will not ever apologise for that.

He sees me being strong as me treating him like shit because I'm not letting him bully and dominate me.

It's all about perspective really.

why? because people change. Or get v sick. I've recently walked out on my whole life inc abusive ex after 6 months of his death threats (to me) and his suicide threats. He's not the man I met, as the man I met wasn't an aggressive drunk. You just never know what's round the corner...nothing is guaranteed..nor is any one person. You are very lucky. I have lost my whole world and it's also too late for me to have IVF now (am childless) due to this man

Yep, honestly, if people behave like this after divorce, their relationship was likely to have been even worse for the children anyway.

He sees me being strong as me treating him like shit because I'm not letting him bully and dominate me.

And my ex sees me setting boundaries and not letting him fuck me over as me being manipulative and unfair and oh it's all about him him him.

My ex is exactly the same. The more reasonable I am the worse he actually treats me. He actually called me 'the enemy within'.

Obviously this is in my experance so based on people I know not on anything else,

Ime men and women tend to part company for very different reasons,men tend to do so because they cannot cope with family life or their heads have been turned,
Women tend to because something is so wrong in the relationship its either emotionally or physically abusive situation for the children and/ or themselves.

People who just fall out of love and go their separate ways don't tend to have the nastiness after doing so.

Someone who is abusive is always going to think any action by the other parent to protect the children or themselves is a travesty and them being a cunt.

Someone who chooses to leave for another person will rarely have their children at the front of there mind,

And someone who has been left for another person may act out at first yes unacceptabley but still understandable Ime the leaver tends to not understand this and goes in like a bull in a china shop pushing ect then it gets nasty,

Obviously there are people who for what ever reason never get past the you cheated you bastard phase but Ime its a minority unless the other party try's to elevate the OW/OM to high to quick in the children's life with little regard for how they feel.

The thing to concider is people with happy great relationships don't just randomly just split up

Mine too, you could write a book with the amount of men like this, well someone has Pat Craven, The Dominator. I refuse to type anymore, cbarsed giving him 3 minutes brain space.

I can see what you mean OP. thankfully I have never been through a divorce but I did manage to get through a long term relationship break up without doing anything awful.
I went through hell when my parents divorced, they did everything you shouldn't do and I have made a vow to never put DS or any future children I have through that. Obviously there would more than likely be some arguments but I would never take it to the level that my parents did.

Forgot to add someone who leaves because they cannot cope with family life is unlikely to morph into a decent parent just because they have left.

If at times I've snapped and wanted to hurt him that makes me human not a bad person at heart.
Did you act on it, or sustained a campaign to hurt him?

Obviously I know people who have been through break ups but no one I consider to be a 'close' friend.
All my immediate family are part of long standing marriages.
All my ' close' friends who are married appear to be happily so.
Maybe I am unusual.
Again, not sure it is necessary to be rude about me personally!

It is not possible either to ever be smug or have the 'it will never happen to me/us' It was a complete shock to me and there was no forewarning.

There are a lot of men who simply do not want the burdens of family. They do reveal themselves as completely different people.

However, if you lose your child - that is an awful thing. My ex now looks tired, old - with dead eyes....

Smartie - I'll tell you this much. Not everyone you think is happily married will be.

And please don't think I don't, or any other mother who is split up from her partner, doesn't put her children first and hasn't, for the most part, split up from her partner BECAUSE she wants to put her children first. That's the bit of what you said that has got up my nose the most. It's because I care about my children and because I want better and more for them that I left.

Did you act on it, or sustained a campaign to hurt him? Lol at a sustained campaign. I have a three year old and neither the time or inclination for that. Lashed out verbally is what I mean - shouted, name called, said hurtful things, and at one point got so fed up of what he was doing involved his dad who I still have a good relationship with.

Have been on the school run - freddie you took the words right out of my mouth. I guarantee at least one person you know is unhappy, or in an abusive relationship. They're just not choosing to share their pain with you, they're struggling on - and it's likely they're doing it because of the children.

I've read all your responses and I do think you are asking genuine questions but you do need to take care that smuggery doesn't creep into your posts. There but for the grace of god, etc etc.

For example, something like 30% of domestic abuse starts during pregnancy or around the birth of the first child. That's a significant number of people who were presumably sitting there thinking 'aren't I lucky'.

I think some people lose all perspective don't they.

My ex deliberatly reversed into my legs, with our dc in the car. This was because i'd had a drink with an old workmate.

I am kind of lucky in a funny sort of way, that my parents out me through a hellish divorce, and so not behaving like that, was one of my top priorities, and I generally bent over backwards to be civil.

A friend of mine is going through and awful break up atm and her kids are suffering so much because neither her or her husband are thinking of the kids.

And I'll guarantee another thing. I'll guarantee that even if they did have a conversation with you they wouldn't tell you the truth. They wouldn't tell you about the times they cried themselves to sleep or how worthless they felt or how useless or the times they were pushed, or shoved, or hit or worse. Because they feel guilty and feel it was their fault. And because that man is still their children's father and they have to not be seen to badmouth him FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN.

So if the why did you split comes up in conversation they will say they grew apart didn't get on or wanted different things.

That I would put my last pound on.

For me, finding out that I had been cheated on, betrayed and lied to for a long time caused me to have emotions I'd never had before.

I'm a really laid back person but I saw the red mist with my ex. And two days after he'd been quibbling maintenance with me I found out he was taking his girlfriend to the Caribbean for a week, well, if I'd had a club in my hand I'd have swung for him. My blood was literally boiling.

You never know how you'd react until you're in a situation. (Oh and I've managed to restrain myself and not commit a criminal offence against him!)

I am sorry if you have misconstrued what I have said. I do not for one minute believe that people who are separated don't put their children first.
I understand that there are many scenarios where 2 separate parents is in the child's best interest.
I do think that there are also many scenarios however, where parents 'use' their children to get back at their Exs.
I hope I am not smug. This is my life as it stands and as I have previously stated I am well aware of how lucky I am.

I understand what you mean smartie

I don't think I've misconstrued what you said. I am sure you said the children were caught in the middle and were the ones who suffered. That is not the case. They would suffer more if they constantly saw their mother being belittled and being put down and treated like a skivvy. Or, as happens often, emotionally physically and sexually abused.

I would love to be in your shoes. I am pretty sure you wouldn't like to be in mine.