to think teaching isn't the idea career for mums?

[alisunshine29]

I'm studying for a degree at the moment and had planned to complete my PGCE afterwards but since speaking to the mum of DD's friend I've changed my mind. She's a teacher at the same school as her daughters and they go to breakfast club from 8 and after school club til. 6. She said they are in bed for 7 and then she has a couple of hours more work to do every night, plus a days worth at the weekend. She gets to attend nativity etc but only because they're at the same school otherwise she'd miss those events. AIBU to think a 9-5 job might actually be more practical?

It must be very narking for teachers when they meet people who think they're off home by 3.30, and have loads of holidays.

But really, it's never easy to be a working parent unless you can afford to work only very few hours.

I left the house today at 6.45am. I got home at 8.30pm. That happens at least 3 days a week, and I don't get to see my kids at all on those days. The other 2 days I see them after school, but as soon as they're in bed I'm working again. I always do work at weekends. I think that is pretty normal for FT workers, particularly in areas like London where commutes tend to be long.

I don't know any FT workers who are with their children up till 9 and again at 5. I don't know any working women who don't struggle to get to all the school events.

It's not easy for any of us [shrugs]. But I have to say, teachers' holidays ARE a boon to a working parent. Most of us really struggle to organise childcare over the holidays.

Would it work to delay doing my PGCE then or is that better if done soon after graduation?

This isn't about other stressful jobs. It's about teaching vs a "9-5 job", according the OP.

Many of us are well aware what other jobs are like. My husband does one for example. I always feel it's a bit like when people complain that teachers don;t know what it's like for working parents...

I agree about the holidays. My DH has more flexibility in the day so can go to sports day etc, and I get the holidays. That works OK.

I think you probably do a bit more research into teaching before you make a decision based on one conversation.

I am a teacher, and my DH has a 9 -5 job.

He works in university administration. He works 9 -12, lunch is from 12 -1, and then he works 1 - 5. His job is well paid, he has a good final salary pension scheme and he works 35 hours a week and gets 30 days holiday + 8 bank holidays a year (so just under 8 weeks a year). Any extra work gets time off in lieu or is paid overtime.

I work part time. Officially, I teach 9 -2 each day so I leave at 2:45 to pick my children up from school. I teach 21 hours and am given 5 hours a week for planning and prep, but that is never enough, so I usually do about 3/4 hours in the evening (every evening sun - thurs). However, I do no other work at the weekends and none in the holidays. I don't really get lunch (tend to work through it) but do get 12 weeks holiday a year. Any extra work that needs doing, I am expected to do without pay 'because it is our vocation', or 'its for the students'. I work almost as many hours unpaid as I do paid (and some weeks, I actually do more work unpaid than I do paid).

We earn similar amounts.

Whilst I get the extra 4 weeks holiday a year, I do not have any flexibility at all. I have to be at work when I am teaching, and we're not allowed time off when our children are sick (that has to be taken unpaid, as I can't take a day's holiday), or when there's an assembly etc I often have to miss them (unless its on one of my free periods / last thing in the school day). We are also called in to do parents' evening, open evenings etc and have to go in on set days, regardless of whether I have got any childcare sorted, if husband is around etc. These evening events (and sometimes saturdays) are compulsory and have to be done, no excuses. Also, my holidays are different to those of my children, so I still need to find two weeks of childcare per year.

Without a doubt, I'd say go into university administration! .

And yes, I know teaching is not the only stressful job. But that's not the question.

A 9-5 job means being out 8-6 for most people, and only 5 weeks holiday.

IMO that's less family friendly then having to do some work in the evenings after DCs are in bed but then having 13 weeks leave - even if teachers have to work some of the time during holidays, they can do that in a flexible way not requiring childcare, commute to office etc

LadyLech - assuming your husband must be in a fairly junior role in university administration!! You are the reverse of us (I'm an HE Admin Mgr & DP a teacher) and I work considerably longer hours than DP!! I travel a lot, work events (open days/evenings, visit days, etc.) in evenings and weekends, and take calls/emails on my non- working days. This isn't a competition at all - my DP does have a stressful and responsible job - but I feel you're painting a rather inaccurate picture of University administration.
Sorry - hijack over!! :)

Caspar - maybe, but he earns the same wage as a teacher!

He does work at a very privileged university, which I suspect skews things as well.

Hmmm. He's very lucky then... And in my experience (4 institutions - 2 ancients, 1 red brick & 1 post-92), that's not at all the norm. Tell him to hang onto his good deal if he can!! :D

It is the norm for his job. He has actually changed colleges, but remained in the same type of job.

He has a technical job, that requires a degree, but has no managerial responsibility. I suspect that makes a lot of difference. He doesn't get the higher salary for that, and so accordingly, his job does not have the expectations of extra work outside normal work hours. His salary though is comparable to that of a teacher, making it a level playing field for comparison in terms of what the OP is asking.

There are plenty of jobs like this at the university where he works. But, if the OP happens to live nearby, then yes I'd recommend this type of job over teaching!

Good points! :)

I just passed my QTS skills tests today after receiving a conditional offer for one of the top unis offering primary pgce... I also have a 4 y/o ds. I have heard all the 'horror stories' but my god this thread has depressed/scared me! Have been on such a high all day too after passing my exam and confirmation of my place on the pgce. I am just going to have to hope and pray I can find part-time work I think!

All of you who only get 4 weeks holiday - you are entitled to 5.6 weeks

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/entitlement

Ceeveebee

I don't think teachers think it is more stressful than all other jobs. But it is more stressful than many other jobs, and more work than it might first appear to the casual observer.

sashh: I suspect you will find that they do get 5.6 weeks. The standard min entitlement is usually "4 weeks plus bank holidays" which is 5.6 weeks.

Just responding to the OP, so this point has probably been already made.

All professional jobs are a compromise and require you to have some element of childcare.

You will probably find that most students who go to breakfast club and after school club have parents who are not teachers.

Not that many working parents are able to rearrange their day in order to attend a nativity.

Not all teachers do lots of work at home. Some manage to do what they need to do during the school day. If the teacher is working flat out from 8 - 6 at school and still needing to do another 18 hours of school work at home over the course of a week, she needs to work on her own time management.

ceeveebee I have never ever ever ever heard or read of a teacher saying their job is more stressful than others' jobs. But I've lost count of the number of people who say exactly what you've said.

The point of the OP is not that other jobs are a breeze, but that teaching isn't as family friendly as is often made out.

As someone else said up-thread - what works for us is me being a teacher and husband not.

He has reduced his hours at work so he does drop-off and pick-up. I am around in the holidays. Neither of us can easily get time off for assemblies / Sports Day etc. but we are very lucky to have Granny and Grandad available for that, and for emergencies (they have looked after chickenpox-boy for us all week).

OP - the hardest years are the PGCE and then the NQT year, in my opinion. If you can get through that then it does get a bit easier, I'm very glad I qualified before I had children.

I think u need to do a lotore research on 9-5 work before u give up a career u say u always wanted.

Office work is rarely 9-5. Depends on area. Location. Role. Boss. Don't assume this is the answer. I would strongly advise against second besting to be an office admin. Again it's hard to get 'easy' roles. Supportive bosses are rare and u have to do alot of work to earn a firms trust to be allowed to alter hours etc. oh! Look just exactly what people have said regarding teaching. How incredibly surprising?!?!

You have also single handedly suggested feminism goes back about 40yrs as women can't have kids and careers. Of course you can but it takes work as its rarely handed out.

As you don't seem to feel work coincides with kids, go sahm or benefits?

I'm astonished that this got to four pages before we got a 'teachers think they work so much harder than anyone else' on a thread specifically about teachers' hours. For what it's worth, the holidays are marvellous but it's am intense job that requires a constant level of energy. I get home and flop on the sofa because I'm so tired. Not sure if I could deal with the demands of my own children then.

Find a job in the international sector! My two dds are at the same school as me so they go to their class as I collect my class and return to me at the end of the day, 3.40. We then go down the beach or spend the rest of the afternoon in the swimming pool. The ten week summer holiday also helps! I also only have sixteen children in my class and have at least an hour free everyday because of specialist lessons. Funnily enough though I desperately want to go back to the uk so it's not all roses!

knowsabit - sorry totally disagree with you about having to do an extra 18 hours at home is probably being down to bad time management.

I have been teaching for almost 15 years now, in a variety of schools and I would say that the amount of hours you are expected to do at home will depend on your head teacher, what you're required to do, what subject you teach and so on... You cannot simply say that it is down to time management. For example, I have worked in a very successful school where teachers were expected to write a written report on students every term. Fine except they were expected to be hand written and we were not allowed to copy and paste. No boxes etc. how much extra time do you think that took? Further, there were two parents evening per year group, so with 7 year groups, that was 14 parents ' evening during the spring term (plus we had to do a tutor one in the autumn term too). The second school I worked at, was not as high achieving. My main issue there was classroom management, but the expectation of extra work was much reduced.

I now teach A levels, and as I'm at a college, regularly have classes of over 20 students. Given that we're supposed to set essays once a fortnight, A teacher can have over 160 students, that's over 80 A level essays to mark a week. I'm supposed to put that into 5 hours of given planning time (along with all my admin work). That's never going to happen (of course it didn't happen when class sizes were smaller, but will funding cuts over the past few years, classes have been getting bigger and bigger, work at home is now inevitable). Work at home, is now a part of the game and is most definitely not down to poor management.

Sorry, rant over!

One of the main problems is that you are very tired by the end if the day and you have to grit your teeth to be pleasant to your own DCs when you just want space and silence!

One hour in the classroom needs one hour's work out of the classroom so of course it goes home- the caretaker wants to lock up! It is not poor management. Lessons do not plan themselves or mark themselves and you can't do either while teaching the class.