to point out that formula feeding doesn't necessarily require you to be sterilising bottles and scooping out powder in the middle of the night...

[itsakindarabbit]

Keep seeing this on threads which mention ff...how people couldnt be doing with getting up in the night andstsrilising bottles/making up feeds.

I bf and ff but found ff no problem at night - i would take up a carton of ready made formula and a pre sterilised bottle and i could feed without getting out of bed.

And yes, i know ready made formula is expensive and not everyone uses it. But some of us do/did.

i have pnd and get very stressed out about germs to the point that my hand are almost washed away lol.
it would sky rocket my anxiety levels. that's just me being crazy & ocd of course

And the WHO rationale for using water of 70C to make feeds:

PIF is Powdered Infant Formula.

"2.2.5 Temperature of reconstitution water
According to the FAO/WHO risk assessment (FAO/WHO, 2006), risk is dramatically reduced when PIF is reconstituted with water that is no less than 70 °C, as this temperature will kill any E. sakazakii in the powder.

This level of risk reduction holds even if feeding times are extended (i.e. up to two hours), and even if ambient room temperature reaches 35 °C. Consequently, reconstituting PIF with water no less than 70 °C dramatically reduces the risk to all infants, even slow feeding infants and infants in warm climates where refrigeration for the prepared formula may not be readily available (e.g. developing countries).

When PIF is prepared with water that is less than 70 °C, it does not reach a high enough temperature to completely inactivate E. sakazakii present in the powder. This is a concern for the two following reasons: a) A small number of cells may cause illness, therefore it is important that cells present in the PIF are destroyed; and b) there is potential for surviving cells to multiply in the reconstituted formula. This risk is increased when the reconstituted formula is held for extended periods above refrigeration temperature. Concerns have been raised over the use of very hot water for reconstituting PIF, but risk of E. sakazakii is only dramatically reduced when water at a temperature of no less than 70 °C is used (see Appendix 3). Currently, the instructions on many PIF products lead to PIF being reconstituted with water that is around 50 °C. But, according to the FAO/WHO risk assessment, reconstitution with 50 °C water generally results in the greatest increase in risk, unless the reconstituted formula is consumed immediately. Under no circumstances is risk reduced when PIF is reconstituted with 50 °C water."

fliss that is exactly the reason i couldn't use pif. it would worry me sick

Flisspaps Sat 23-Feb-13 18:09:39
Pobble If you boil the water, put it into the bottle and wait 3 minutes (less if you're using less than 7oz of water) the water will have cooled to around 70C. SIL told me this and I was sceptical, however I checked with a temperature probe and it's correct

Half an hour is the average time a full kettle of water would take to cool to an appropriate temperature

No need to wait for 30 minutes at each feed.

He won't drink it warm. Not even a little bit. We get spitting and pursing of lips if the teat goes near him. Cooling it takes forever (or it seems to when DS is doing his hungry cry).

Pobble - then make them up with water over 70 degrees, cool in a sink and put in the fridge until needed, that is preferable to making a feed up with cold water for the reasons already given.

I couldn't give a shiny shit if you think I'm being sanctimonious & judgey, mainly as to an extent I am. I found it extremely difficult with dd, I didn't just throw her on and away we went, I suffered extreme pain & for a short while (8 weeks, which felt like a lifetime) dreaded each feed. I saw several peer supporters and bf counsellor a. I was counting down to 6 months. but I recognised the importance. In the end I fed her to 29 months & luckily had no trouble with ds who I'm still bf at 10 months.

I am sick of hearing about people who couldn't feed. Yes, of course there are some people who for medical reasons, due to medication, or down to plain bad luck, can't feed their babies. I feel sad for them if that was what they wanted to do. It is estimated that this applies to around 10% of mothers. But way more than 10% use the excuse that they just couldn't feed, it was too sore, or they just weren't producing, my personal favourite, spouted most recently bu a friend of a friend who had to stop on day 2, as she just wasn't producing. Bunk up, it's still colostrum at that point.

The fact is that bf initiation rates in the UK are 81% with just 12% still feeding at 4 months. In Germany initiation is 90% with 63% still feeding or mix feeding at 4 months. So, are we physically different from our German counterparts? Or is it culture, advertising & attitude that are different?

Why should you get to be judge and jury on OTHER people's choices?

Well bully for you.

But this thread isn't about your struggle, or your unnecessary judginess about other women's reasons for stopping or not BF. It's pointing out that for women who do formula feed, it doesn't have to be a bloody faff in the middle of the night.

I am sick of women judging other women for their choices, when quite frankly, it's no-one elses fucking business.

I support women who BF, and I support who FF.

What I don't support is sanctimonious, patronising piffle criticising other women for making a choice that was right for them and their babies - either way.

Well said, Flisspaps.

Its not a faff

Judge & Jury? Do I have sentencing powers!? Ooh.

I'm just really tired of hearing that people tried but couldn't. That will be true in a minority of cases, but short of the truth in others. It belittles how hard some people do try & how beneficial bm is. All this crap about few proven benefits. Evolution is rarely wrong (apart from male nipples, it's a bit weird, hormonally, there).

I have a friend who is currently expressing like a trooper to feed her second prem baby. She works at it & did the first time. She struggled & cried & had pain when ds1 was finally big enough to suckle, but she got through it as she knew it was worth it. I hate being in a room when someone tells her that they tried but couldn't, when what they actually mean is 'I found it hard & time consuming'.

I do have one friend who really tried but couldn't. She was anorexic & her body just couldn't do it. She had the formula backpack with tube by nipple. She was gutted but really had to stop for ds's sake.

Anyhoo, people can do what they wish and l/or need, no one has the right to say otherwise. Of course. But don't kid yourself or try to kid others about your reasons.

"but I recognised the importance" to you. that is all you get to decide. what is important to you. everyone else and their dcs are none of your business and you dont get to judge their decsions based on what is important to, especially when it comes to what food they feed their dcs for 6 months out of their entire lives.

No sentencing powers. Just the power to be the reason that people don't feel able to ask perfectly valid questions about ff or bf. Because they are afraid of being lambasted by people like you.

Great that you struggled and managed. Not everyone can. Not everyone chooses to. And not everyone has the support and advice available to help them get over problems.

its people like you who make it necessary for people to say they couldn't feed instead of saying they didn't want to. if they say they didn't want to they come in for a whole wave of "she didn't even try, so selfish, it's a precious gift blah blah blah" when in actual fact they should look at you with a face and say "none of your business how i feed my child"

and some things ARE more important than struggling through to prove that you can breastfeed. bf is not teh be all and end all and really if FF is more convenient for some then why the hell shouldn't they choose that from the off without having to justify it?

babies I couldn't feed my baby I know I couldn't we ended up back in hospital day 5 with 12% weight loss supply never upped regardless of how much skin to skin, expressing, fenugreek bf counsellers we saw never had any engorgement or pain or leakage there was some milk could never express even an oz by hand or medela pump. if it isnt there it isn't there and after 8 weeks I called it a day what can women like me do? Carry on for the tiny amounts he was getting while his top ups got bigger and thats after he fought me to feed? Sometimes it's true some people CAN'T do it we don't say that to belittle other peoples efforts but by making out we are lying is fucking disrespectful

I don't understand Babiesgetcovered. What do you care what other mums feed their children?

FFS babies. Im sure many people persevere until their tit falls off but do you really not understand that is THEIR choice, and not the solution for everyone? Why are you being such a sanctamonious oaf about this?

Sorry for the further thread derailment and wish it hadnt gone down the predictable bf v ff trail but ignorance like that makes me raging

I BF DC1 despite difficulty and pain initially and after about 6 weeks we were pros.

When DC2 came along I was smug and certain believing the same as
babies How wrong can you be?! I couldn't get my daughter to feed properly, the latch wasn't working.

I sought help from EVERYONE, she dropped weight like a stone. I knew something wasn't working but didn't know what to do. She was hospitalised for weight loss almost had to be tube fed. I got mastitis and an abscess. If this has not happened to you you can NOT judge. You do not know it feels like - not just the pain and illness but despair and sense of failure. Finally a nice doctor whispered to give her a bottle and absolved me of my guilt that people like you babies perpetuate.

I don't know why we are different from Germany, that's an
Interesting point but I can tell you sometimes it doesn't work. DC3 due in two weeks and MIL thinks the same but I am pretty fucking nervous TBH.

I honestly think that sometimes formula like caesareans saves lives so why the hell does anyone get worked up about it if others need them.

Sorry that rant was looooong

But figgy I'm not making out you're , lying. I specifically acknowledged that some people have real trouble. I'd say that you are amazing for what you did. But there aren't many like you.

please that is what formula was designed for. That is actually my point. You're NOT making excuses, but doesn't it annoy you when people say they tried but, actually, didn't? Don't you feel that that belittles what you went through?

Good luck btw

FFS who cares how many there are and more to the point how would you know? And more to the point if people LIE WHY DO THEY? Because they are sick of the usual guilt tripping shite spewed by zealots by yourself.
Now, in the OP please tell me where it asked for opinions on people who choose to formula feed/not breastfeed? Because I seem to be missing it