to point out that formula feeding doesn't necessarily require you to be sterilising bottles and scooping out powder in the middle of the night...

[itsakindarabbit]

Keep seeing this on threads which mention ff...how people couldnt be doing with getting up in the night andstsrilising bottles/making up feeds.

I bf and ff but found ff no problem at night - i would take up a carton of ready made formula and a pre sterilised bottle and i could feed without getting out of bed.

And yes, i know ready made formula is expensive and not everyone uses it. But some of us do/did.

Breastfeeding reduces pain in babies undergoing tests

pain

Better behaviour and relationships in term babies breastfed for long periods in infancy
behaviour

Large study showing better mental health in children and teenagers breastfed as babies mentalhealth

Just a few - you can rubbish them (best read them first! Full texts pls!) but there are many, many others, produced by reputable organisations, many involving large samples, all (when relevant) controlling for confounding factors such as age, education and parental income.

Some of the things we're asking questions about now are things that most mothers would never even consider as relevant to feeding method. For example, did you know that children bf as babies are more likely to respond positively to medications used to prevent repeated and prolonged bed wetting? The suggestion is that synapses function better in these children because of the range of fats in breast milk which are believed to promote optimal brain development.

And this isn't wacky of fringe research. This is research produced by reputable organisations, is peer reviewed, and is listed on the UNICEF website. Doesn't mean you're not allowed to find fault with it, but I think it's fair to ask you to read it IN FULL before picking it apart and dismissing it.

I think it's COMPLETELY reasonable for people to be strongly supportive of efforts to increase bf rates in the UK on the basis of current evidence, and they shouldn't be vilified, as is currently happening all over the media (and on mumsnet) for expressing the opinion that breastfeeding is important for babies.

Shagmund, why do you always come and do this

Your links are certainly very informative but this is not the thread for them, as Detective points out.

Of course breastfeeding is important, and we should be doing whatever we can to promote it and try and increase the numbers of people doing it for longer. But there will always be a balance between doing the best thing for the baby and doing the best thing for the mother. I think I would have BFed for longer if anyone had been even remotely honest about the realities of it while I was pregnant, expectations have a lot to do with your exerience I think. BUT even when we're not talking about depression or PND, should mums keep doing it even when they are utterly miserable and hating it every feed? I got to point where I found myself thinking of ways I could put off giving DS his next feed because I just hated it and knowing he was going to vom the whole lot back up and want another feed straight afterwards was just soul destroying, and there was nothing wrong with him or with me (I had plenty of milk and hardly any pain beyond the first few days). Parenting is a balancing act, and for some women, the benefits of breastfeeding just don't outway the negatives.

Shagmund - do you know how to start a thread? If so, then please do so for all of this information which is not relevant to the thread. If not then please ask another poster to do so for you.

for goodness sake, have you nothing better to do than look up breastfeeding, arent you such a wonderful mother because you breast fed, your child will grow up perfect now well done, congratulations! It is quite frankly none of your business and you should not be concerned about other peoples babies! I for one do not appreciate basically being told the damage im doing by FF. I think you may actually be on the wrong thread though as i cant see why someone so pro BF would be on this one....

Exactly. Really not helpful.

I rink it is helpful. There are plenty on here saying it doesn't matter how you feed your child. Ff & bf are the same. They're not. At a very base level breast milk contains antibodies & enzymes that formula doesn't. It is also beneficial in the ways shangmund points out.

There are clearly a LOT of people on here who don't know that. Isn't it better for people to be able to decide whether or not to bf or continue breastfeeding despite problems, based on full & proper information? Surely everyone can agree on that?

Easilybored I feel sorry for your experience, mine was similar up to a point & I have a friend who is going through it with her second Dc, but she knows the benefits & she knows that this feeling/the sucky stage will pass& feeding will become much easier.

I agree that pro-breasting advice is often to blame for cessation of bf. I think there is a lack of realism about the potential pain, how long feeds can take etc. so when people do feel ghexommon initial pain, they think they aren't doing it right, can't do it & should quit.

I think shag makes some very reasonable points, politely & reasonably. The voices in response are angry & hysterical. If peoe really want a balanced thread that is helpful to those yet to select their method, then it did need to be balanced with some bf information IMO (which I'm aware none of you care about).

Perhaps in future MNHQ need to ban feeding threads from aibu & make them stick to the feeding board where people who are directly interested, rather than those with a passing opinion can search them out.

A passing interest? You seriously think the posters contributing to this thread only have a passing interest in how to feed our babies?

The issue is that this thread was aimed at FFing parents to help make night feeds easier and has turned into a slanging match led by a thankfully small minority who can't tell the difference between advocacy and zealotry. It has led to women who experienced a lot of distress at not being able to BF being made to feel guilty all over again about our 'failure', and those who did it by choice as is their right being accused of not giving a shit about their babies' nutrition.

This kind of behaviour doesn't belong on any board.

Yup know about the enzymes but sorry still not enough,weighed it up like any other choice.

And Shag mental health,behaviour- seriously PMSL

You do realise why that is just ridiculous.

Indeed ChairmanWow. Last time I checked the title of this thread wasn't "Please list for me in great detail the benefits of breastfeeding and breastmilk".

The only hysteria I can see are from those posters who feel it is their duty to spread the Good News to others, whether they asked to hear it or not.

But there is a load of tosh on here about bf, there just is. A lot o misconceptions spouted as fact. So, as for 'coming in here....' That'll be why.

Yes mental health etc, why PMSL? It's to do with the fatty acids found in bm & development of the early brain function leading to later synapse development. Why does this trouble you?

Oh & I don't think this thread was aimed squarely at ff parents who will have no doubt largely works doubt the kinks, I think it was more likely aimed at those yet to decide or on the cusp.

The fact of the study and the information in it doesn't bother me babies, it's just that it's so fucking tiresome that many times there is a thread remotely to do with FF, a certain group of posters come along with "Didn't you know that XYZ study shows that breastmilk prevents the likelihood of your child becoming a yob? IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT I COME AND TELL YOU THIS"

I mean what do you want these people who FF to say? "God you're right, I am SUCH a shit parent. How did I not see the light and give breastmilk to my child. Shame on me for making a choice that best suited my circumstances and enabled to do the best job I could about parenting. Please could you call social services on my behalf to come and take my poorly nourished child away"

Do you see what I mean?

Because a) the science is crap b) even the dept of health don't think this is a benefit worthy of mention and c) poor mental health is caused by a whole host of things such as poverty,debt,unemployment etc,etc,etc

I should think genes and childhood history might have a not small part to play too.Logically speaking but then who needs logic or common sense.

I'm sure there are many who could enlighten us.

Formula feeding- ha,ha,ha.Do give us a break from the scaremongering and stat twisting as I for one tend to switch off the minute it happens.

Can we just end this thread here? Fuck I am so tired of this rubbish, on so many threads.

You won't find a greater supporter of bf mums (and ff ones too!) than me but this is sort of thing is not about supporting parents and babies' health.

YY to that Zara. It's going round in circles. Shame really but we're not going to get back to the purpose of the thread now and this will go on forever.

polka there is a difference between linked to/may help prevent & causes/prevents. Surely if you consider the other factors & see that your child may be prone to mh issues & you read that bf may help, you might. You think the science is crap? Interesting. What was the last paper you had peer reviewed?

I was ff. I never witnessed anyone bf until I was we'll into my twenties. I thought they were the same & that only mad hippies bf. I am educated & live I an affluent area. Even when I got pg with dd1 at 29 I just assumed it'd ff. then I started to research. Info on formula (albeit over 6 months using images of 3 month olds ) is everywhere. BF info, all of 4 years ago was patchy. I found many threads saying how hard bf was & how they're so glad they switched to ff on other not to be named fora. I came here & found a ff v bf thread which was thought provoking & informative, on both sides. If I'd have found this thread, minus the bf comments things might have been different.

I very happily fed dd to 20 months (pg with EC when I stopped) now feeding DS at 11 months. I have a lot of very good reasons for being extremely glad I bf. I won't bore you further.

I like balance. Previously this thread was rammed full of comments like bf is expensive too, re special clothes & other such guff, how is a manly boob any different to an unsterilised bottle (?wtaf) etcetc

The anger towards anyone who dares to write anything positive about breastfeeding is astonishing - I'm always amazed by it. This thread was full of inaccurate comments about breastfeeding - ie. as babies above says - 'manky' boobs being compared to unsterilised bottles? absolute madness.

People who do not breastfeed seem to want to shut down any conversation about breastfeeding - and the science is not crap, for gods sake - please go and read the latest Save the Children report on how many hundreds of thousands of children die each year because they are not breastfed - NOT just because of unsafely made milk but because it is not as good as providing immunity from illness. a recent study showed that the NHS here in the developed UK would save millions on treating children each year if more children were breastfed.

It provides a level of immunity that formula does not match - that does not mean formula is bad - I use it! its great! But - there is a complete unwillingness to listen to open discussion about the benefits of breastfeeding.

And also - what I find hard to stomach is the accusation that FF is demonised - MOST PEOPLE FORMULA FEED! It is breastfeeding that is painted as 'smug, unncessary, no better than the synthetic alternative' - in some parts of the UK, particularly the poorer parts, young women do not even consider breastfeeding - even though it is free and it is the best food their baby could have. I consider that a public health issue - a major one. So - I, and others, will continue to try and raise this issue on a thread that was clearly set up to argue that formula is a good and easy way to feed your baby - fine, it is - but this is the internet so there will be debate!

Are you telling me that other people's opinions are invalid babies.

You come across as an ill informed person, judgemental and condescending.

God forbid someone who is on the cusp of choosing how they feed their baby finds this thread. Because of you, not because of people giving information on the safe and correct ways to prepare formula.

Look how many people think it is okay to prepare formula with cooled boiled water. And look at posters like myself who have directed people to online information on how to safely prepare it. What the fuck does that have to do with breastfeeding.

For what it is worth, I think breastfeeding is utterly wonderful. I am a HUUUUUGE advocate, but I am also a huge advocate for women's freedom to choose what is right for them.

And as far as I can see no one on here has said breast and formula are the same. Every fucker knows they are not. It is still a perfectly valid way to feed a baby. And deserves to be able to be discussed without knobs like you coming along and spouting your vitriol all over the place.

Having done both waterat I am saying this thread isn't the place for a bf debate. Why can't ff be discussed without bf stats being thrown at people?

It's unnecessary and cruel to people who want unbiased information. It is almost impossible to get unbiased feeding information as it is, everyone has an agenda. Why can't you just leave people alone to make their own choices?

Yes waterrat

Actually, I had steered clear of this thread for days until a string of people posted saying that ff & bf were the same, big deal, no different etc the detective

I don't think that anyone would argue that, in general terms, breastmilk isn't best for the baby. I think that most mothers, whether BF or FF, are well aware that breastmilk is best for babies.

However, breastfeeding can be a very difficult / impossible skill to learn for a variety of reasons, and it's not always best for mothers, whether for emotional, physical or cultural reasons.

I think it's a real shame that a thread that started off by offering useful advice on how to FF safely and without unnecessary faffing has been derailed by people who are intent on arguing about the feeding choices mothers are making, or have been forced to make because of their circumstances.

Especially as the title of the thread makes it clear that this thread is about forumla feeding, not FF vs BF.

Nobody has said that far from it.

People have tirelessly said there are advantages however there are advantages in most parenting choices.Peope have weighed up the pros and cons like any choice.

Many posters are sick and tired of this particular choice being held up and used to beat up mothers with.Choose another one.Red meat,sugar or screen time might be some good ones to start with,far more reliable "studies" and scarier stats if that floats your boat.

Posters are also sick had tired of the scaremongering and stat twisting which are blown up out of all proportion.

You mother your children and make your choices,let others do the same,you never know instead of switching off mothers might listen more to your cause.

to point out that formula feeding doesn't necessarily require you to be sterilising bottles and scooping out powder in the middle of the night..

If you cannot afford the expensive ready made cartons, then it IS a faff.

End of thread surely?

Depends on the definition of faff.Trying to coax a half starved baby to latch on properly all night and not cause immense pain was what I called a faff,preparing bottles which took all of 5 mins not.