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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to threaten to tell her friends and her school?

152 replies

Mimishimi · 20/02/2013 01:38

We've had three incidents of petty theft with our twelve year old daughter recently - two suspected and one confirmed. She has only been openly caught in one - the first. My DH found her with money that she admitted, after lying about at first, that she took from her grandmother (!!!). It was the equivalent of ten pounds. She has come back to Australia to attend a selective high school here and some of her school friends are those from her selective primary class that she attended for 1.5 years.

Just over a week ago, I had twenty dollars go missing from my wallet. She had seen me withdraw sixty the day before. That morning she had woken up earlier than me and asked for lunch money, which I refused because she had time to make lunch. When I fully woke up, I asked her by text what she had taken for lunch and she said a sandwich - however, there was no evidence of her having made a sandwich left on the bench and she always leaves evidence. So I checked my wallet and discovered the twenty missing.I went over all my spending from the previous day to account for everything and was fairly certain that she either took it or that it fell out of my wallet, it was not spent. She denied taking it when I texted her and when she came home from school. Since it had been gusty the night before, there was a slight chance that it had blown out of my wallet (never had the problem before) so we decided to give her the benefit of the doubt after questioning her most of that day.

This morning was almost the same situation. She woke up at 6:15, I woke up at seven. When I woke up, she complained that there was no bread to make a sandwich so she had to make a salad. I went to the freezer and pulled out a loaf of bread (she knows to look there if there is none in the fridge). All there was on the bench were a container of lettuce leaves and no evidence of cut tomatoes, carrots etc. Two minutes later, at 7:05, she said "Ok, I'm going to go to school now" which is at least ten to fifteen minutes earlier than she usually does. I told her to wait and I went and checked my wallet. It was cleared out and eight dollars was missing. I still had the receipt from Monday evening for the twenty I gave the cashier in cash for $12.00 worth of groceries and I am certain it was in there still last night as I didn't buy anything with cash yesterday (it's Wednesday morning here). I asked her and again she denied taking it (in a very flat monotone 'bored' sort of voice which is the tone of voice with which she denied it last time). I told her to go but in retrospect, I probably should have done a bag and pocket search immediately. She has not answered my texts and has refused to take phonecalls from either myself or my husband all morning.This time I don't have much doubt that she took it and she probably did the last time also. There has been no hint of contrition from her, not even the first time, but more of a snarliness that she has been caught out. She genuinely seems to think she is entitled to the money.

I have already confiscated her Mac and she will have no access to the iPad, both of which she needs to complete a school project that she's been doing with her friend (who has been coming over in the afternoons) and which is due tomorrow (a video assignment which she's been recording with the iPad so the files are on there and she wants to edit it on the Mac tonight). I texted her that she will not be getting them back until she confesses and apologises. I also texted that if she refuses to do so by the end of the day, I will be calling the school and telling them that we are experiencing some petty theft from her. I really am genuinely concerned that if she can do it to her own grandmother, let alone us, she might do it to classmates. I then texted that if a confession and apology is not forthcoming by the end of the week, I will be emailing all the friends whose email addresses I have and telling them the same.

So this comes to my AIBU question. My DH is concerned that the last two threats might be going overboard and might permanently ruin her reputation for what is apparently a common problem with pre-teens and teenagers ( I can genuinely say that I never stole money off my parents although I did raid the lolly jar once and tried to lie about it - DH says he never stole money but his brother did). His suggestion was that I go to the school and threaten to pull her out of school for three days if she does not confess but I don't see how that would be effective? There is no shame involved in that for her and I could potentially get her into trouble for not sending her to school without an adequate explanation. Do you think the threats to tell the school and her friends are unreasonable?

More importantly, what on earth do I do about the stealing and the denial of it? She was a very truthful little girl, could be relied upon for it, and it's absolutely breaking my heart.. She does get pocket money and lunch money once a week although I've been a bit lax about it the past couple of weeks because we've only just come back from Hong Kong (where she attended school for six months to try it out).

OP posts:
Hopeforever · 20/02/2013 18:37

OP may well be asleep still, what's the time difference in Oz?

Please take the positive advice and connect with your DD. she needs you!

squeakytoy · 20/02/2013 18:55

around half five in the morning so I imagine OP has been asleep..

thegreylady · 20/02/2013 19:05

Please never ever brand your child a thief to others.You could do damage which could last her whole life.Make any punishments at home and do a lot of talking about why she has done this.

SconeInSixtySeconds · 20/02/2013 19:05

Time zone depends on which coast of Australia op is on. Anyway, between 8 and 10 hours ahead of the uk.

Mimishimi · 20/02/2013 19:24

Awake now.

Yes, I probably should have clarified that our school canteens are not at all like the sit-down school dinners provided in UK/US schools (which don't seem that healthy anyway). They are just small shops which do have some healthier options - which are mainly ....sandwiches. Albeit with a far more generous serving of mayonnaise etc. The rest of the food is pies, chips, pizza slices etc. I'm not giving DD days old bread and leftovers - after dinner, I used to set some aside for her lunch the next day and she was fine with that up until last year when he insisted that she preferred to make her own. The bread has never been in the freezer for more than a week because the kids go through it quite fast. In the Australian heat, if we don't put it in the freezer, it will definitely go completely mouldy in a day. Most children in Australian schools take lunch from home which they then take outside to sit on benches under the trees etc.

FWIW, I do usually get up earlier than DD. I think I mentioned in another post that I usually get up at six o'clock but for a variety of reasons, not least of which is late night skyping with DH who is three hours behind us, that does not always happen. I don't think expecting her to get ready for school by herself at age 12 is unreasonable but I'd not expect that for DS who is half her age. So I'm never in later than seven. I'm not exactly having a lie-in barking orders. And yes, her studies are largely self-driven but I do care enough to buy all the books, go through her maths/English with her whilst DH does the science stuff etc [smiley] In Hong Kong, she expressed in no uncertain terms that she wished to come back to Australia.

OP posts:
magimedi · 20/02/2013 19:29

You know, I was starting to feel a bit sorry for you, OP, for the replies you got here. But now I'm not.

The whole of your latest post is 'me' & 'I' - how about thinking about & dealing with your daughter's problems?

LadyBeagleEyes · 20/02/2013 19:29

Er, but you haven't mentioned the most important question Op.
You know, about telling all her friends she's a thief, and making her unable to do her project/homework for school work as a punishment.
Do you actually engage with her at all?

Mimishimi · 20/02/2013 19:31

Bit of self-defense since it seemed to turn from the issue of her stealing to how late I lie in and won't make her lunch but would rather send her off with crusty old bread and manky leftovers?

OP posts:
Mimishimi · 20/02/2013 19:40

Re everyone's suggestions though. We do like the idea of giving her a set amount each week which she can spend as she chooses and the lockable security box . DH likes the hidden video camera idea but I think that is an overreaction and possibly too complicated too. I do recognise that telling her friends is probably not going to be very helpful (was hoping the idea of it might pressure her to fess up before actually doing that) but if it continues I might still tell the school but not in terms of 'my daughter is a liar and a thief' but just that we're having this problem, which is a common one, and they might have some good suggestions.

OP posts:
delilahlilah · 20/02/2013 19:42

I would say she is unhappy and insecure. Don't threaten her, talk to her. Threatening to prevent her doing homework is spiteful and petty. You need to teach her to approach things in an adult and mature manner. You don't need to barrage her with texts, you need to talk to her. This could well be a cry for attention, especially with her Dad abroad and the changes she has dealt with recently.
A previous poster had a great suggestion - you give her X amount for the week and she can choose to make sandwiches or use it for lunches.
In the mean time, prevent temptation and put your bag away, and be really honest with yourself about changes you can make to help change your relationship with her.

delilahlilah · 20/02/2013 19:43

X-post! Also, if she is having healthy food at home, don't worry too much in the short term what she has at school. The more pressure she has to eat healthily all the time, the more likely she is to do the opposite. It's human nature to want what you shouldn't eat.

JeanBodel · 20/02/2013 19:51

You are not listening to the responses, OP.

You are not listening to your daughter either, OP.

SconeInSixtySeconds · 20/02/2013 19:58

But for those of us who have said we did it, most of us have said that we felt unhappy and with little in our control. Take the lessons from our childhood op.

bevelino · 20/02/2013 20:12

I don't think it would be wise to humiliate your dd by involving the school and if I were in your shoes I would strive to contain the matter within the family. You have no idea how the school and other pupils may react if you report the problem and it could have consequences for your daughter (and ultimately you) that last long after the behavior you describe has passed.

TheFallenNinja · 20/02/2013 20:13

I really was beginning to think that's his was perhaps getting a little harsh but to be frank I guess if you were to write a book on how to totally alienate your children and create a police state in your home. This thread would have to be worth a chapter.

Utterly ridiculous. An adult having all the textbook cries for help put into her lap and the only thought is forcing this, that or the other, surveillance, lock boxes, calories in mayonnaise. I shudder as to the environment.

I'm sure you will one day wonder why she never confides in you.

SconeInSixtySeconds · 20/02/2013 20:18

But the fact remains op that she needs a little more responsibility and freedom. And yes Aussie tuck shops (yup, that's what they still call them) don't sell wonderful food, it it probably wouldn't take long for her to get bored of it.

We have just moved back from Australia and it is impossible to underestimate the effect it has on the dc. It is so easy to tell ourselves that the dc are adaptable but we aren't in that school environment with them, we need to listen when they tell us things, even when it isn't what we want to hear.

Idocrazythings · 20/02/2013 20:40

Please stop sending your DD negative texts before school, can't it wait till she gets home? How must she feel all day having that weight on her shoulders?

Can you make a load of sandwiches together on a Sunday and freeze them? So she can lift one out in the morning? Maybe you could also make some muffins to freeze and freeze a yoghurt tub- would be defrosted by lunch. Or buy some of those snack abouts? That way she's not making anything, just assembling it. Which won't take long and probably more similar to the other kids.

There must be a reason she's taking the money I think your solutions are a bit harsh, but not having a 12 year old I have no suggestions. Can the school psychologist/counsellor help you gently unpick what is going on?

NopeStillNothing · 20/02/2013 20:45

Are you kidding me?! All these responces and all this advice and your absent DH ' likes the video camera idea'
I'm going to have to hide this thread now, wilful ignorance is near-on impossible to break through and this whole situation is making me quite sad. Your poor DD! Sad

Faireenuff · 20/02/2013 20:45

Ok, re school. I can't believe you're still contemplating talking to them. How many parents do you think brand their children thieves in public, because that is what school is. The next time something goes missing in school, who do you think the teachers will suspect.....the person branded a thief by their mother. I too thought you were getting a hard time, but seriously, you're poor poor daughter, you've had plenty of advice here, and there is much more available which doesn't involve branding her a thief. for what it's worth I'm in the cry for help camp. Poor kid.

steppemum · 20/02/2013 20:49

I can understand you feeling defensive OP, you have taken a lot of flack on here. But in your recent posts you seem to still be missing the most important thing that everyone has been saying - your daughter needs you to talk to her and look at the underlying reasons for this.

You are still coming from the perspective of how to punish, stop her doing it again, but that kind of sidesteps the underlying issues.

Hope you have a chance to talk to her later today.

Whocansay · 20/02/2013 20:51

Please don't publically brand your daughter a thief. That will stay with her forever and it will permanently damage your relationship with her.

Give her lunch money, or make her lunch for her in the short term. And don't leave any cash lying around. She will feel uncomfortable knowing she is not trusted. She clearly has some sort of issues at the moment, which need sorting. But you should talk to her first. And not by text.

EverybodysSootyEyed · 20/02/2013 20:51

Sorry op - but instead of trying rigid ways to humiliate her into stopping I really think you should focus on finding out why she is doing it.

The cash is incidental - it is a signal that she is not happy. If you can get to the root of that you won't need to worry about catching her/getting her to admit it/humiliate her/punish her

12 is such a hard age - if she is struggling at school socially it can have a long lasting impact

Softlysoftly · 20/02/2013 21:14

You have totally missed the point.

Don't unilaterally decide anything for your daughter. Don't decide x money will help. Don't put in fucking spy cameras, don't invest in lock boxes, don't in fact do anything that might as well be a bullet proof brick in the wall between daughter and parents.

You are painting a massive sign that says "we don't and never will trust you, you dirty thief".

Pretty much all the previous posts that made sense said the same thing.

Talk to her

Ask her why.

Tell her how it made you feel.

Tell her how shocked you were that she did it and you know she knows better so what could have driven her to it?

Tell her you love her and she can trust you to tell you anything.

Tell her you'll discuss her needs, you'll compromise if she presents reasons.

freeandhappy · 20/02/2013 21:19

Surveillance!! Jesus Christ. My daughter can take anything she wants from my bag, pockets, wherever. She makes up her own mind about lunches and bus fares, few quid off me for the weekend. We have an atmosphere of trust because I love her and I'd do anything for her because I'm her MUM not her fucking warden. She is 14 and never abuses this. If I'm short she is fine with me borrowing a tenner out of her babysitting money jar. Your way of thinking is utterly alien to me. I feel so so sorry for your daughter. Wise up for fucks sake. You are the most important person in her world an you are so mean! Get some therapy for yourself and try to learn not to be so insanely uptight. Cameras/intimidation/determination to get an apology/humiliation wtf??

freeandhappy · 20/02/2013 21:20

Yes sorry and