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Original poster

re Facebook and the pictures of James Bulger's killers

347 replies

NessieMcFessie · 15/02/2013 16:11

A friend of mine on Facebook has posted the pictures of James Bulger's killers as they look 'today'. I have no idea where they have come from or if they are actually the two men involved (and I don't know if she knows any of this information).

AIBU to report these pictures? She has had loads of support under her post.

OP posts:
Fairylea · 16/02/2013 21:04

Yes sock.

That may very well be true.

TwistedReach · 16/02/2013 21:11

Thank you for your response fairylea but imagine then if you had been born 'with an evil streak' would that be your fault? I personally can't imagine anything worse than being born with this.

AgentZigzag · 16/02/2013 21:22

If they were born with something that made it more likely to do what they did Twisted, it wouldn't be their fault, but if it was how they were brought up it's not really their fault either. Or could be a bit of both of course.

It does make it difficult to work out whether they were responsible, and still are, for how they act.

Could say that nobody's fully responsible though. Which would be bollocks, I think, possibly.

SoWhatIfImWorkingClass · 16/02/2013 21:25

T and V are on licence and will be for the rest of their lives, like any other murders, any serious relationship they enter into the partner will be informed and will be told the consequences of having a relationship with them, say if they have children etc. They cannot rock up anywhere for a job and they cannot live anywhere they chose.

Good.

I hope they never live a normal life and are never ever happy. I hope nobody ever loves them and what they did at 10 has completely screwed up their lives. I hope they die very very lonely.

I don't wish them a happy life at all and I hope it is full of misery, in prison or not.

pigletmania · 16/02/2013 21:31

No agent chikdren from all backgrounds can Horrid things

pigletmania · 16/02/2013 21:33

They might have been brn like that, but their circumstances did not help. As I said previously it provides an explanation for their behaviour

TwistedReach · 16/02/2013 21:34

But piglet, why? Why do they do them?

pigletmania · 16/02/2013 21:36

Sorry twisted could you re phrase that my understanding is not good tonight

rodandtheemu · 16/02/2013 21:42

agent are you actually relinquishing them from the responsibility of murdering that baby? I'm not sure ive read that right.

Its not difficult to work out if they were responsible - a jury did that after hearing the evidence.

People do abhorrent things for absolultly no sane reason. Just because there was no logic to it, dosnt mean it was'nt their fault. No one forced there hand. Of course it was there fault.

It is what it is, they murdered a baby.

TwistedReach · 16/02/2013 21:44

I think we xposted but I was really just wondering what you think really causes children (or anyone actually) to do things like this. Because if they are born that way, or indeed if they are so traumatised by their environment that they become that way then really how on earth would then 'punishing' them further help?
I really can't imagine anything worse than something having gone so wrong in my personality that I could do something like this (let alone at 10). And that makes me think that this is a tragedy for all the children involved. I wondered how you could work this out in a different way?

shesariver · 16/02/2013 21:56

I was really just wondering what you think really causes children (or anyone actually) to do things like this

Thats a question I don't think anyone has the answer for. Its the old "nature versus nurture" argument. Personally I think it can be a mixture of both. Some people have real difficulty thinking that any person can be born "bad", but I agree with rod that some things people do there are no reasons, no explanations and people seek explanations for explaining these inexplicable events.

AgentZigzag · 16/02/2013 22:01

I'm not sure what, if any, concessions were made to them for being children in court rodand, but in effect, didn't the jury find that if they were adults (because they were tried as adults) they would be guilty?

They were responsible at one level because they did it, but you can't ignore what made them do it.

pigletmania · 16/02/2013 22:06

I dont know twisted, i am sure it was deep in their psyche and was brought out by their circumstances, and that they each influenced by each other rather like Myra Hindley and Ian Brady, apparently Myra would not have murdered if she did not come in contact with Ian Brady. Those boys would probably not have murdered on their own, but together formed a leathal duo

pigletmania · 16/02/2013 22:10

If you look at bullies they usually act as a group, on their own they probably would not bully

TwistedReach · 16/02/2013 22:12

But then if genetics and environment came together to cause this, how on earth does further punishment or torture help?

rodandtheemu · 16/02/2013 22:12

Adolesents are just as capable as adults to know whats wrong and right about murder or what they have done is wrong. As with adults, children can be cold, chronically agressive and unfeeling. Narcissistic qualitys can be present in even young children and feelings of rejection and being un loved can lead to violence,and then there are the genuinly disturbed children through no fault of there own.

Even so these children/adolesents/adults should not be allowed back in to socitey when they have demostrated these behavours.

It shouldnt be seen as long term 'punishment' it should be seen as protecting the vunerable, our babies/children/us/elderly from these people.

pigletmania · 16/02/2013 22:20

Well twisted, why do criminals get punished? because justice has to be done, they have to have consequences to their actions via the judicial system.

rodandtheemu · 16/02/2013 22:22

twisted I'm not sure I 'care' if these two 'boys' got help as you keep advocating it. They surrendered any rights to being 'helped' when they took the life of an innocent child.

If they had counciling afterwards, fine, if they had nightmares about it, boo hoo. I hope at least one of them has come to terms with the monsterous crimes they did ( as one of them clearly hasnt) and can now sit and and have his soul tortured to etenity about what he has done to this child and his poor poor family. Its just a shame its not in cell instead of a life of freedom.

pigletmania · 16/02/2013 22:25

The crime was so serious and henious that they should not be able to lead a normal life, i hope that it does torture them for the rest of their days. Apparently not JV as he was bragging about being involved in killing James, obviously the punishment was not harsh enough

shesariver · 16/02/2013 22:26

But then if genetics and environment came together to cause this, how on earth does further punishment or torture help?

Not sure what you mean by torture but regarding punishment we have to have a society that is lawful not lawless - people cant do what they like when they like to hurt or kill people and get away with it. Why should it all be about "helping" then - punishment of course has to come into it when facing the consequences of your actions.

shockers · 16/02/2013 22:32

I remember reading about the films that one of them had watched/been made to watch (as he had nowhere else to go) from being tiny. That child was probably about as desensitised to horror and violence as you could get.

Now think about the kind of parents that allow that situation to happen... are they going to be loving and nurturing in all other aspects of life?

One of the boys had allegedly been given cannabis to smoke/alcohol to drink.

I'm imagining my children, at 10, with those kind of stimulants regularly given, neglected and able to view horror/violence without a loving person to explain.

Then I imagine my children as toddlers, enduring what James endured... actually I can't, it's too upsetting.

But the first one was too.

HollyBerryBush · 16/02/2013 22:32

Mary Bell was far worse than these two, she successively abducted and murdered twice - she appears to have managed to have a successful life in that she's never reoffended, became a mother and grand mother now. Hacks have periodically tracked her down, but somehow they have managed a complete blackout on her - The Sun, Mail and Stern magazine have offered her enormous amounts of money to tell her story.

I have read Gitta Serenys collaborative book, with Mary Bell - the majority of it on line. Its quite horrific. From the age of 4 she was prostituted by her mother, when in the approved centre, she was the only girl and ritually sexually abused by the other boys AND staff. If anyone were going to revert, I would have thought it would be Mary Bell. Seems the rehabilitation system has done good work with her. But she will always look over her shoulder of course.

Pity her daughter who had to be told, and the life ban will cease when Mary Bell Dies and the daughter and grand daughter will be the next press victims.

AgentZigzag · 16/02/2013 22:33

Sending people to prison is only the way we do it shesariver, because it's what we've inherited and we don't know any better.

You can't really say it works, if the aim of it is to have people better equipped not to hurt other people when they get out of the other side.

shesariver · 16/02/2013 22:40

agent I agree with you, but I don't think the aim is totally rehabilitation because I dont think everyone is capable of this i.e psychopaths - of course it would be nice to think that every one could be but I personally think this is idealistic and prison is also about punishment, and why not. As to what to do...who knows.

rodandtheemu · 16/02/2013 22:49

What about repeat offenders? Rapists,child molesters,thieves ....rehabilitation doesnt work for every one.

I am i must say an advocate for the learning of skills, education, anger managment essential life skills in the prison system, BUT alas it cant help evey one and indeed dosnt work for every one. re offending is high. It would be great if we could wave a magic wand and they never re- offended and never had to go to jail ( also it would save us millions!!) but we cant- so they have to be sent there.

agent if your child had been james, how would you have delt with it? No prison, maybe some hugs and counciling?