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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not understand: "Don't criticize my choices/beliefs."

76 replies

Hullygully · 14/02/2013 11:45

This is something people say a lot on here.

I don't understand it. Genuinely.

What is wrong with disagreeing with someone and saying so and giving reasons?

If you are secure in your choices/beliefs, what do you care what other people say?

If you have some doubts, why not hear the criticism/questioning with an open mind and perhaps rethink? Or become secure in your choice/belief as a result.

It doesn't make sense.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hullygully · 14/02/2013 12:26

hear hear naomilpeb

OP posts:
TheFallenMadonna · 14/02/2013 12:26

I have beliefs (religious) and hold points of view (anti private education) that are roundly criticised on here, and have no problem with a bit of robust debate. I prefer it to be polite. I do care what other people say if they are talking about something I care deeply about, however much I know I am right (!), and I dislike being dismissed by people arguing against a point I haven't made. I dislike lazy arguments as much as I dislike the shutting down of debate referred to in the OP.

But then not everyone is as argumentative as I.

AliceWChild · 14/02/2013 12:26

It's to do with the individualisation and depoliticisation of society. If you focus on the individual then social movements lose their power. The power of people to get together and challenge injustice is undermined. Everything becomes ok if it's 'chosen' and therefore can't be judged. It's part of the who neoliberal shebang. Bit of a macro and possibly tangential answer but there you go. It's part of a wider political shift. And YANBU

Original poster
Hullygully · 14/02/2013 12:28
OP posts:
WilsonFrickett · 14/02/2013 12:28

Oh yes. But I guess there's always going to be tension between different versions of the truth, isn't there? If there was an article on the news about Darwin and they gave equal air-time to a Creationist, I'd be incandescent. But if there's an article on religion and they gave the same Creationist the same air time, that's a different thing - it's all about context.

I do hate the 'entitled to my opinion' brigade when it comes to racism and sexism. They are factually incorrect, not opinionated.

Original poster
Hullygully · 14/02/2013 12:29

I agree badtime, people take criticism and disagreement of a view as criticism of them as a person.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hullygully · 14/02/2013 12:30

A little while ago I started a thread about religious belief and it was fascinating, even more so because everyone kept it polite and civilised so we could really have a good old bash at the issues. I learnt a lot from that.

OP posts:
TheFallenMadonna · 14/02/2013 12:32

But hully, if it is a deeply held ideological position, then it is you. Not saying you should therefore shut down debate by bleating about everyone had a right to their own unchallenged view - just that it feels personal, because it is personal. And debate would be more constructive if that was recognised by both parties.

Original poster
Hullygully · 14/02/2013 12:36

oooo I dunno about that. I still think you have to separate out what you think and why you think it from the fact that you are a human personage.

Religion is always going to be tricky because of "faith"

OP posts:
TrucksAndDinosaurs · 14/02/2013 12:40

I think people do not distingish enough between choices and beliefs, opinions and convictions.

I was always taught that if you are not prepared to
A. Justify it
B. act upon it

Then it is an opinion/ choice and not a conviction or belief. You should be prepared to change choices or opinions when presented with a more compelling argument.

RosyRoo · 14/02/2013 12:41

I couldn't agree more. I love being given the opportunity to explain why I feel a certain way about things. But for the most part people do not like to have their views challenged or disagreed with. It upsets them. I have been learnt this the hard way and now try to be very agreeable in RL.

Original poster
Hullygully · 14/02/2013 12:42

I try to be agreeable, but then I have wine and forget.

OP posts:
TheFallenMadonna · 14/02/2013 12:42

Religion is impossible! Never the twain shall meet.

I think though that where you hold any ideological viewpoint very strongly, it is tied up with your identity. I realise that it doesn't apply to everyone. Some people tend to the firebrand and others don't. On most things (not belief!) I can be rational and present my arguments and reasoning for them, but what I can't do is be dispassionate.

seeker · 14/02/2013 12:43

And faith as a get out of jail card. That really poses me off.

I can be as judgemental and prejudiced as I like and you can't call me on it because it's "my faith".

nickelbabe · 14/02/2013 12:44

badtime - that's true, but sometimes people do use the excuse of someone's beliefs/opinions to insult the person - thinly disguised fouling.

nickelbabe · 14/02/2013 12:45

yy seeker - most faiths dictate love and peace, and the amount of bigotry, hate and violence that goes on in the name of faith is shocking.

Original poster
Hullygully · 14/02/2013 12:46

But they mean it seeker. Yhey can't help it. I heard someone on the radio yesterday talking about religious belief (and other stuff) and saying that there does seem to be a gene for belief/non-belief.

If you are utterly utterly convinced of something, yet can't prove it, you call it "faith"

I don't have it, or understand it, but I can see it's real.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hullygully · 14/02/2013 12:47

Oh, not the judgmental prejudcied bit, just the belief bit.

Also it's nonsense as all original religious stuff is about love and peace and tolerance. Not murdering and locking up women etc

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Ponders · 14/02/2013 12:49

If people think that they are entitled to air what they think/believe, then they must accept that those who think/believe something else are equally entitled to air what they think/believe.

And if they don't want that to happen they should keep schtum

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

...but I will also defend to the death my right to disagree with you!

TheFallenMadonna · 14/02/2013 12:50

I have no truck with anyone who can't justify a moral viewpoint without reference to faith. And I speak as someone with a religious faith. Surely, surely you must have thought it through...

gordyslovesheep · 14/02/2013 12:51

sorry - school pick up!

just in my case Hully my mum is a Christian (and a socialist and an all round fucking good human being) and my BIL is an atheist

My mum respects and values peoples beliefs and does not ever try and impose her own (I am a humanist and her husband is an atheist)

My BIL has launched a one man FB campaign to belittle and harass my mum at every opportunity by posting endless pictures and quotes attacking Christians and Christian views and it has upset her deeply. All she has ever done is welcome this odious little shit into her home and our family and it is un called for and nasty

it's fine for him to disagree with Christianity as a faith and it's fine for him not to share her views - it is not okay to bully her because of them

FellatioNels0n · 14/02/2013 12:52

YANBU. I will come back and read the thread and argue for Team Hully later.

TheFallenMadonna · 14/02/2013 12:52

Yes ponders.

If you have the right to say it, I have the right to call you on it.

Only connect!

Original poster
Hullygully · 14/02/2013 12:52

totally agree gordy.

an arse is an arse

OP posts:
gordyslovesheep · 14/02/2013 12:53

exactly Grin