To be fed up when people have an opinion on how many children you have or want

[brummiegirl1]

I have 2 young boys aged 2 and 7 months and would like 4 children if i'm lucky enough as i was an only child and knew i wanted a big family. Before i went off on maternity leave with my youngest a woman at work said are you done now and i said i would like more children in the future and she said im mad.

Other people have also asked the same thing. Is it me? I wouldn't dream commenting on how many children someone wants or has as it's up to them, when im asked now i feel all defensive about it and don't want to tell them like im a naughty teenager not a 33 year old married woman!

Don't shoot the messenger lockets.

The trouble is, that as soon as anyone expresses any kind of strong opinion about over population, climate change, fox hunting, fur wearing, animal cruelty, wind farms etc etc etc, they are immediately bombarded by a list of aggressive questions like the ones above, as though doing nothing about anything was preferable to doing something, presumably from someone who feels judged.

Having children, or how many children you decide to have, or not is the single biggest environmental decision you can make. Whether someone is able to drive is irrelevant in comparison.

Not gonna repeat lockets - don't want banning.
LQ - I'm talking about a specific issue and the biggest one facing our planet - over population. The problem that dare not speak its name. You can look at every single resource based, environmental issue the planet faces and it comes back to there being too many people.

I take it you dont have kids then bobby?

Sorry hadn't finished: so for example on a battery farming debate, in which someone is saying that perhaps we ought to think about paying more for meat, someone will always ask "Are you vegan then? Well? Are you? Because unless you are, you are a hypocrite" from someone who presumably buys cheap meat and is feeling a little bad when confronted with the reality of it.

Similarly someone who writes something concerning over population, they will be asked "Well do you generate your own electricity? Well? Well? Do you farm your own food? Well? Do you walk or cycle everywhere? Well? If not, you have no right to express the opinion that I shouldn't have had eight children." When in fact the first poster had said nothing directly to the second poster at all. It's just defensiveness.

As soon as a debate like this comes up, people feel their circumstances and decisions are being personally judged, it makes them defensive and debate can go nowhere. Someone said to me once I only have these opinions about over population because I have fertility problems and I was clearly just feeling bad about not having children and wishing to make others feel bad as well . Er...no. We would only have had one child.

And have crossed posts with LilQueenie who has beautifully illustrated my point.

I can honestly say hand on heart that all my children look just like their mother and are actually very beautiful, we get stopped in the street with two of them regularly and asked if they would consider modelling - they wouldn't - but they are keen sports persons, doing well at school, involved in their local community and generally kind delightful beings.

The world is a better place for them being in it, so rude not to have had 4 of these poppets.

LilQueenie:

1. are you vegetarian?
   Yes

2. do you drive?
   Yes - but mainly just to work. We don't live in London, so public transport is a big issue (there is no bus that goes from my village to the town I work in. Neither is there one to go to the town my DH works in - weirdly enough, there are private school busses that do stop where we live and go there). Transport infrastructure in the UK is of a pretty low standard compared to other countries in Europe.

3. what is your job?
   None of your business - but yes, I work so am not reliant on benefits. DH, too. My work place has a lot of green policies in place.

4. what heating system do you have?
   We currently rent a house yet, so can't choose. But if we do, I intend to do what my parents have done (installing solar panels and all that... very green).

5)Do you donate/actively participate in third world countries/help environmental/needy in this country?
Yes, I sponsor a little girl in Africa + I have relatives in the third world, too. There was a time where I did more for those in this country, but simply have no time to anymore.

What exactly is your point though? I can assure you that most people with 4+ kids can't answer the above questions to your satisfaction...

You shouldn't have even answered them, Tas. She was trying to make you feel unjustified in holding the opinions you do.

my point was overpopulation lack of food. Vegetarianism is actually more sustainable to the world. Having one child and trying to do my bit for the world we live in to make it a better place for future generations. Why am I being flamed?

You didn't make your stance clear at all.

I agree that being vegetarian, aside from the animal welfare issues, is a major environmental decision.

So why did you say to bobby that you take it she doesn't have kids?

I think people do have to stop and think of the greater good before going on blissfully to have as many children as they like. They all have to be fed, housed, clothed, educated, given medical treatment when necessary. I wouldn't dream of having a go at anybody on an individual basis. Except for these silly people on TV with their multiple offsprings. But these things do need to be considered.

Im not trying to make anyone unjustified because I can say Tasmania good on you. You care about the world in which we live and are doing something about it. Let me answer now.
Im vegetarian and bringing up my child the same. I dont drive but would like. Saying that I never will because Im managing not to now so see no reason to. We have a horrible public transport system here too. I sympathise with that.

yep none of my business. Reason for asking was about the green policies. Personally I would not work for a company I did not agree with. For example I would never work in a butchers. Currently I am a stay at home mum to a toddler but my DP works.

Again same. Cant choose heating system. But yes I would love solar panels.

I do a lot for charities and environmental issues. I also have relatives who work in other countries trying to help make lives a better standard of living. BTW she has 6 kids 1 adopted. They are all helping. All private schooled. set up her own business. Not all who have lots of kids are scroungers. So yeah I guess I have a chip on me on that one. I agree dont have masses of kids if you cant afford them/rely on the state.

The point is I do actually agree with you. I just found your posts quite discriminating.

After you've finished stealth boasting mosman you might wish to sit back and reflect rather ruefully how you managed to so spectularly miss the point.

When someone has very strong opinions over too many people in the world I have to ask why they have kids themselves? Im not saying you shouldnt have them but its kind of practice what you preach or noones going to listen.

LilQueenie - but in all your posts, you seem to defending those who do not seem to do the same as you.

Why?

Don't you get upset that you have made that decision, and others... just don't care - even when it comes to just deciding to have two kids rather than, say, four?

Because I think that's the easiest decision to make that would benefit the world at large. It's difficult to become a vegetarian, for example, if you were accustomed to eating meat. It's difficult to contribute positively to the environment, if the infrastructure is not in place to help you do so, and hybrid cars are still out of reach of too many people...

... however, if you currently have two kids, you can safely decide to just have the two without giving anything up (because those other "future kids" don't exist). I understand some people have envisioned themselves with 4+ kids for years and years, and when that wish isn't fulfilled, they're devastated. However, what they gave up is something they never had in the first place.

YANBU. You really do get judged, or worse, laughed at. I have 6.

Oh. And mine are absolutely stunning, thank you very much.

Annunziata - do you never worry about what world your DC and their children will live in, if everyone had the same amount of children as you? I really want to know that. Because for your brood of six you are basically saying that 5 more houses (assuming you have one already) need to be built for each of them to have a roof over their heads - ok, let's say 2.5 because we assume they will be living with a partner (then again - that is no longer guaranteed either, so probably best to stay with 5).

The future worries me a lot, and it should - especially if you have kids. I just don't understand why others don't seem to be bothered! And it doesn't matter to me how pretty your kids are. It's about the fact that if EVERYONE did what you did... we'd be in pretty deep sh*t.

Truth is I wanted 8! My partner still wants more. I have one. She is my world and over the last few years Ive become aware of the problems the planet has. im doing all I can for DD. I wont have more because 1 it would cost another round of private ivf. 2 I wouldnt be able to cope and 3 I actually dont want more.

things that infuriate me are: people saying I should have more. People saying Im wrong to make DD veggie and its not fair. Where do people get the idea that eating meat is how we should all start out? I get angry when people say well Im doing x y z cause everyone else does. The point is Im infuriated at peoples ignorance to their decisions. Its not even decisions because they havent considered there may be other options. How can a decision be made without options?

because those other "future kids" don't exist good point. We picked two boys names and two girls. DP insists but what about 2,3,4 and calls them by name as if they DO exist. They dont. I would be a terrible mother if I had more. That is probably the best decision i have ever made.

No, I just don't.

I guess I defend because we dont know each person personally. Not all people on benefits for example want to be there though to others it seems they are. My mum has health issues and struggling at the moment but she would love to work. She does carry the attitude of "If I want to go out and drink for a bit I will" on benefit money and smokes it away. Then how can she say she struggles if she does this?Yet I have seen the truth, there is days she cant get out of bed. What we see isnt always how it really is. I dont agree with all her choices btw. She has actually applied for jobs despite knowing she cant do them due to illness which makes me really upset cause I know she wants to earn.