To want to give Michael Gove a Chinese burn

[RavenVonChaos]

And then kick him hard in the shins before booting him into outer space?

Am I, am I ?

On the current pay scale teachers only receive automatic pay increases for the first 6 years (and as Feenie has said these can be blocked if they are subject to capability proceedings). The next 35 odd years they have to prove through performance management that they are worthy of an increase (and there are only 3 more points to earn on the pay scale after the first 6 for non-managerial roles).

Marriedinwhite, I can only comment on your posts - you pop up on most education threads with the soundbite that you know 'lots' of teachers and none of them either don't work hard at all or go on sick/return just to increase sick pay, etc. All of them.

It is extremely unlikely that you know 'lots' of teachers who do this. I am not the first person to point this out to you, and as you persist on appearing on education threads continually to post this and other silly soundbites, then I am unlikely to be the last.

I am baffled re your thief/unkind/stupid comments - suggest perhaps you have a nice cup of tea and calm down.

Parents thinking they are clients/customers is one of the worst things ever to happen to education. If I'm providing a 'service' at all, it's to the people I educate. And I still don't really believe that the work I do can be compared to a transaction in a shop. Progress in school takes as much input from the pupil as it does from the teacher - or it should. And if you apply the model of service-provider/customer to that, it makes it unbalanced and implies that all of the effort must come from the teacher.

You are a client/customer now, because you pay fees to your school.

You were not a client/customer in your children's state school, where apparently every teacher moaned about you probably.

As an aside, no teacher should just automatically be awarded the next increment, including the main pay scale.

FGS, they are NOT!

I know that Feenie, it was in response to catsnotrats who posted about teachers getting automatic pay increases for the first six years. I'm pointing out that they don't! :)

Ha ha!

I'm another one who feels that a chinese burn is too easy.

How about teaching my bottom set year 10s Tennyson/Milton/Donne or another one of those nice classics you feel we are neglecting? Preferably on a Friday afternoon. Please, show me how to raise standards.

I'd give him 10 minutes without police support.

Ok, thanks for clarifying, roundtable

Married, you have inferred, Feenie et al may have implied.

(primary, outstanding x3, now on UPS because of performance, not length of service).

I'm not outstanding in my lesson obs. My classes nonetheless achieve above their targets (levels of progress, not FFT, which would look much better for me...). And the take up of my subject has increased 3 fold since I took over. I am on UPS2 and worth every penny, even if I don't make the 1 in an observation.

Three teachers have either left my school because they were being put on capability, or have been dismissed after the process, in the last 6 months. The idea that poor teachers are unchallenged is a nonsense in any school with adequate management.

I know you work in education marriedwithchildren. Is it a school?

Marriedinwhite, my apologies!

NUT guidance on pay increases:

Each September, if you have worked as a teacher during at least 26 weeks of the previous school year you will receive an additional spine point up to the maximum. The only exception to this would be in the highly unlikely event
that the governing body determines that your performance is unsatisfactory. You will therefore be able to progress to point M6 on the basis of experience alone.

I think that if we are going to have a reasoned discussion about pay we need to be honest about what the current situation actually is.

So that's 5 years of your career then. During which you have performance management and have to demonstrate your competence. For the remaining years, it's not an automatic (subject to performane review) progression, and it's not annual.

Along with lesson observations, targets, detailed evidence, etc, etc for performance management.

Precisely Kim and madonna!

Until recently "satisfactory" was Grade 3. That has now been reclassified as "needs improvement". So teachers delivering grade 3 did get increments; that was not right and neither was it right to classify those lessons as satisfactory.

Why was it not right to class them as satisfactory (and therefore worthy of the next MPS point) if they were deemed to be satisfactory and not 'in need of improvement' at the time though?

Satisfactory means they were teaching everything required, and the students were learning at an acceptable pace. Sounds fine to me.

Even at outstanding level, there's room for improvement!