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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be upset by this teacher's comment about children receiving free school dinners?

154 replies

cafebistro · 06/02/2013 13:03

I have recently split up with my DP. We have 3 DC's 2 of which are at school. As I have been a SAHM since having children I have had to claim benefits until I can get sorted. I found out this week that my school age children will be receiving free school meals as of Monday.
I went for coffee at a good friend's this morning after the school run and another of her friends popped round whilst I was there. She's a part time teacher at a primary school ( not DC's school) and my friend was asking how work was etc. During the course of the conversation while discussing her work load she mentioned that as there was only 9 free school meal children at ther school now (v. small school) then her workload wasn't as great as these types of kids needed more imput . My friend asked her to clarify and she said well they're more time consuming and needed more attention. To me she was implying that children in receipt of free school meals obviously have social problems within the family and maybe behavioural issues??
I'm upset to say the least.

OP posts:

seeker · 06/02/2013 21:50

"So do free school kids get one to one if they have behavioural problems? Because the extra help wasn't forthcoming with fsm autistic ds "

No. Have you actually read the thread?

porridgewithalmondmilk · 06/02/2013 21:56

Ghost - no, that wouldn't be appropriate at all, even if it was viable! Can you imagine how embarrassing that would be for the poor kids!

If a child has behavioural problems and need extra support there are various things a school can do. We have a clear and fair behavioural system - it is so fair the kids even nag us about using it! I can't see that one-on-one helps behavioural problems particularly, although it can of course help some children if appropriate to have continuity of staff and have the same TA with them throughout the day.

The money is used in different ways depending on what the school needs and what would benefit the children. At our school, the PP money bought a class set of Kindles for my department, I know some other departments bought in some computer programmes or Easter revision sessions or similar. This helps ALL children of course but then so it should - how embarrassing to be effectively told "you get this because you are on free school meals!"

butterflyroom · 06/02/2013 21:57

Children on free school meals are pupil premium children. These children are then named on my performance management documents ( this is my personal experience if course). Teachers in my school receive additional time to focus on these pupil premium children. These children may be low achievers or may already be excelling. No matter as they are still pupil premium children. The head analyses data for all children in all classes half termly and these children are expected to have made additional progress as they are a focus group. We are accountable for this as money is ring faced for pupil premium input.

ihategeorgeosborne · 06/02/2013 22:08

I remember being on free school meals for a time while at primary and secondary school. My memories of how we were treated are pretty grim to be honest. I remember at primary school, my teacher getting everyone to line up and pay for their dinners on a Friday morning. Those of us on FSM stayed in our seats, while the teacher shouted "those of you who don't pay, stay where you are". I remember begging my dad to let me pay for my dinners as I was mortified. I also remember at secondary school, having to line up to get our meal tickets every lunch time. Again, I was so mortified that I sometimes skipped lunch. There were times I probably did fit that stereo-type of being disruptive, but I realise now that this was more to do with the fact that my mother was critically ill and my father had to give up work to look after us and was really not coping. As a child, I was unable to articulate this to my teachers and was therefore labelled as a low achieving trouble maker. I proved them all wrong in the end and went to university. I do however, remember the humiliation of being on free school meals in the 1980s and wouldn't wish that on anyone.

seeker · 06/02/2013 22:09

That's awful.Good that it doesn't happen that way nowadays.

echt · 06/02/2013 22:24

How awful for you ihategeorgeosborne.

When I was at secondary school, there were no free meals that we knew of, we were poor and my parents were clueless about this option. I was often called out to the front of the class to say why I hadn't brought the money. I discovered later that that though grants for uniforms, free school meals, etc. were all available, the school did not publicise this.

When I was older, I applied for a grant to assist my studies, was called in to the HT and pressure applied not to do it. The money came from the LEA, not the school. I smiled and insisted. I got the money.

I imagine the school did not want to be identified with poor people. Odd for a Christian institution.

IAmLouisWalsh · 06/02/2013 22:29

We are expected to know exactly which kids have FSM and be able to justify how Pupil Premium money is being spent to help them achieve. This means the info is now shared much more widely than ever before. I have to indicate it on seating plans for inspection, for example.

It is absolute bollocks.

IAmLouisWalsh · 06/02/2013 22:36

I did suggest we just branded the kids on the forehead or something to make them easy to pick out.. but Mr Gove hasn't taken me up on that one yet.

ihategeorgeosborne · 06/02/2013 22:38

echt, In my experience, Christian institutions were the worst perpetrators of ostracising poor children. I went to a Catholic primary and they were down right sadistic to be honest. I remember sitting in a classroom with a couple of other children doing work when all the other kids were on a school trip somewhere. This was because our parents couldn't afford to pay and there was no fund to help us so they said. I remember this on numerous occasions. There were many times I'm convinced that my siblings and I were singled out for being 'poor'. It definitely happened.

thecook · 06/02/2013 22:52

IhateGeorgeOsbourne I remember this happening to kids in my primary school in the late 70's and at comprehensive in the 80's. Disgusting.

Ghostsgowoooh · 06/02/2013 23:09

No not read thread all the way through. Off to read it through properly seeker

pixwix · 06/02/2013 23:25

ihategeorgeosborne

Things were similar here. On mondays, we were let out of registration to queue for school dinner tickets. there were two queues at reception - those for children paying for dinner tickets, and those in receipt of FSM, of which I was one. That wasn't great fun.

I also remember being eligible for a free school uniform, and heading off down to a storeroom to pick stuff out... It was a very loose school uniform - blue skirt, white shirt, blue jumper, PE kit etc - but my parents literally couldn't afford it, bless em, due to circumstances etc...

It has to be said - that bit was great! I finally got warm stuff that fitted! And it was done out of school hours, so I didn't feel stigmatized. I came away feeling great!

I also did the not going on a school trip, because it was a choice of that or a new pair of plimsolls for PE. (£1.50) My parents were great, and encouraged me quite a lot, although most of my earnings on my paper-round, babysitting, and other ventures funded family stuff and school stuff. They funded me through 6th form, which at that time and place, was quite far sighted really!

Ghostsgowoooh · 06/02/2013 23:34

I've just had a doh moment! That's how our school managed to afford loads of iPads! From the FSM funding.

That's always puzzled me well every days a school day..

CaptainNancy · 06/02/2013 23:42

Pupil Premium doesn't just apply to those in receipt of FSM now... it applies to any pupil that has been eligible in the last 6 years- please, please if you are eligible apply- you don't have to eat the meal, it is the eligibility that is the key to the funding, if your DD/DS prefers sandwiches, they can still have sandwiches every day, but the difference £600 (soon to increase to £900 I believe) can make to a school really really adds-up.

And lolly - all children form part of statistics- DFE/LAs/Schools analyse their performance data for any kind of groups you can imagine.

CaptainNancy · 06/02/2013 23:44

Reverse snobbery also applies btw- I was the only child in my form at secondary not to get a free dinner ticket. That was a very awkward moment the first day, when they handed them out to all but me...

ibizagirl · 07/02/2013 13:07

Thanks for that Skittish! I am very lucky that my mum (who comes with us) or grandparents pay for any holidays for myself and dd.

JuliaScurr · 07/02/2013 13:15

is there any financial benefit to schools that get fsm kids into uni? Russell Group uni? Any gain to the uni for taking fsm kids?

ibizagirl · 07/02/2013 13:22

This all reminds me of dd when it was lunchtime at primary school. There was hardly any food left and she was near the back. There was one jacket potato left. Four of them had to share it with a few scrapings of coleslaw etc. When i spoke to the school about it the following morning i was told "well at least she is on free meals so you didn't have to pay for it" or something along those lines. In front of other parents too. I replied that the school receives the money so a hot meal should be properly provided. They didn't seem happy.

JoanByers · 07/02/2013 15:12

Sometimes caterers make mistakes. I don't think it's reasonable to go marching in and complaining because they ran out of food once.

IsabelleRinging · 07/02/2013 17:27

Joan Don't think that was Ibiza's point really!

I think the school was actually quite rude in ibizagirl's case, it doesn't matter whether she payed or not, it's not the point, and if my dd was left without a decent meal because the caterers messed up I would have spoken to the school too- I don't see any mention of 'marching' or 'complaining' in that post to be honest.

HollyBerryBush · 07/02/2013 17:31

you guys are good at googling - I have issues with out school dinners 9well more like their combinations) and I have searched high and low for an official (ie DofE style) website that stipulates that eg a 16 should have x grammes of protein, or x grammes of fat and so forth.

All I see in the canteen is ruddy chicken burgers slapped between cheap bread, with no butter/spread or salad etc. Pisses me off no end.

JoanByers · 07/02/2013 18:09

Yes I understand the point, but if you go marching into school because of a single catering balls-up then it's not surprising if they come out with an arsey comment.

Sure if it happened regularly then it would be cause for complaint, but it's a minor issue as a one-off.

flyingspaghettimonster · 07/02/2013 18:25

My kids get free school breakfast and lunch - it is a godsend for us as we are low income and my daughter can happily put away 3 bowls of cereal at a time. I was pretty shocked last summer when I got a request from the school guidance counselor to apply for a summer school programme for my kids - designed to help very poor kids maintain grades over the 3 months of summer holidays. It seemed a bit ridiculous to me - my kids maybe poorer than a lot of their friends, but only financially - my daughter scored top of her year on her COGATs and my son got a scholarship to a private school, so they clearly aren't academically failing just by being on free school meals. The summer school seemed to imply that the poorest kids were least likely to maintain knowledge over the summer, presumably as their parents wouldn't bother to read with them, take them places etc. All a bit offensive, but since they backed it up with data, I guess they had a point. Just because we didn't fit that mould didn't mean it didn't exist.

I decided I would send them on the course, since it would fill 6 weeks of summer and offered fun trips, swimming lessons etc. They seemed very eager to have my kids as apparently we count as a minority among the enrolled students - my kids were almost the only white kids there, so we helped them tick their boxes. I was glad I sent them - the kids loved every minute of it, made a whole heap of new friends they would otherwise never have met from other schools in the area, and did learn a fair bit as the scheme offered 1 teacher per 4 kids, tailoring the classes to suit the individuals.

If you are going to get labelled with the poverty thing, you may as well take up all the benefits available to help your kids.

Hesterton · 07/02/2013 19:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seeker · 07/02/2013 19:56

"The summer school seemed to imply that the poorest kids were least likely to maintain knowledge over the summer, presumably as their parents wouldn't bother to read with them, take them places etc. All a bit offensive, but since they backed it up with data, I guess they had a point"

It's often nothing to do with not bothering. It's to do with no time, no space, no quiet, no ability, no confidence, no books................

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