To be upset by this teacher's comment about children receiving free school dinners?

[cafebistro]

I have recently split up with my DP. We have 3 DC's 2 of which are at school. As I have been a SAHM since having children I have had to claim benefits until I can get sorted. I found out this week that my school age children will be receiving free school meals as of Monday.
I went for coffee at a good friend's this morning after the school run and another of her friends popped round whilst I was there. She's a part time teacher at a primary school ( not DC's school) and my friend was asking how work was etc. During the course of the conversation while discussing her work load she mentioned that as there was only 9 free school meal children at ther school now (v. small school) then her workload wasn't as great as these types of kids needed more imput . My friend asked her to clarify and she said well they're more time consuming and needed more attention. To me she was implying that children in receipt of free school meals obviously have social problems within the family and maybe behavioural issues??
I'm upset to say the least.

[ShipwreckedAndComatose]

Agreed. It is essential that teachers know the profile of all their pupils.
FSM is one of those groups and it is one OFSTED expect to be at the forefront of teachers' planning.

The teacher in the op was Insensitive but actually not wrong in anything she said.

[HanneHolm]

plus there MAY be housing issues etc that affect the kids home learning.
MAY BE
not always are

[seeker]

"DD2 is NT doing very well in school and has FSM. So she's taking absolute fucking bollocks and sounds very stuck up and judgemental!

Bacardi- have you actually read the several calm, rational and sensible explanations on this thread? Or are you just here for the rant?

[BacardiNCoke]

I'm just here for a rant. HTH

[seeker]

So you haven't read the explanations from people who know what they are talking about?

[bringonyourwreckingball]

I can see how a high proportion of FSM in a cohort, with the social/emotional etc issues which may often (but of course not always) be associated with the situations which lead to needing FSM (family breakdown, poverty etc) can be challenging for a school. But that is exactly why the pupil premium exists, so that targeted help can be put in place. On an individual level, kids attracting the pupil premium is a good thing as it helps to fund that targeted help. Tbh her comments say more to me about the school than anything - an attitude which sees kids with additional needs of whatever kind as a burden, rather than looking at what can be done to support them.

[BacardiNCoke]

Exactly which part of my post do you have a problem with seeker? I have read the thread and their are some very good explanations on here that I agree with. But I still think the woman making the comments was being judgemental and as someone who's child has FSM I have a problem with that.

[demisemiquaver]

methinks some people enjoy being offended...maybe it would be better if they stopped giving more money to the relevant schools.../just in case some nice middleclass person gets upset about possible implications?????

[GiveoverGove]

There are many things that non-teaching parents would be shocked to know. In my school we know the names of every child getting free school meals and we discuss their progress as a group of children as well as individuals because that is what the government requires us to do. It is our constant quest to find the parents eligible but not claiming because we get about £4000 extra funding for each pupil entitled to FSM. it only takes 4 or 5 non-claimers before we could be down by a TA salary for example.
You might not like the hard facts but children entitled to FSM usually do less well at school than those who aren't. This is not applicable to EVERY FSM chid as many have said but across the country it has strong statistical significance.
I have repeated what many have said but felt moved to add my bit.

[porridgewithalmondmilk]

I agree, Bringon - I also want to add that ANY good teacher will judge on who the child is and not their family background. I have got some children who on paper look as if they would be 'trouble' but actually are just so lovely and want to do well and really appreciate the time and help we give them and some thoroughly unpleasant children from 'supportive' homes (I don't of course say this to them!) Plus in my experience most the children I teach are nice and I really like it that I can say so sincerely. I don't look and see "Oh there is Adam on FSM" or whatever, I really don't - just as I don't think "Oh there is Eve who has autism" but I know for both and that is what I am paid to know.

I will say though that in my first year teaching I taught at a really rough school and it was awful. I didn't get to do any teaching because behaviour was so bad and I felt physically at risk so many times. I don't blame any teacher for deciding that they don't want to work in that sort of environment as it is miserable and soul-destroying. That isn't linked specifically to FSM but that school did have a very high proportion of FSM children so I can partly see what the teacher meant but I think the way she phrased it was just silly.

[HappyMummyOfOne]

All governments have issued extra funding to schools based on the number of FSM. Its there to give children the best chance of suceeding at school as stats show children on FSM fare far worse than those who are not. There will be exceptions but the stats are very clear. As others have said, Ofsted also take an interest to show social aspects of the school to current and prospective parents.

I doubt she meant to offend you but was simply commenting. Concentrate on the positives, your children are being fed at school and teachers will ensure the pupil premium benefits them even if only by it funding an extra TA etc.

[dayshiftdoris]

My son has challenging behaviour, ASD, causes no end of disruptions to a school and I know that we have been incredibly high maintenance but didnt qualify for FSM until 3 weeks ago

Nice to know he's finally in the right box

Seriously though... the profile of the school population is important in terms of funding and planning. FSM are merely a method of categorising children in terms of deprivation. It's not ideal but you generally find that in areas with known social deprivation have schools with high FSM children and attainment is often lower tho the pupil premium offered to school for FSM children actually makes these children valuable to the school...

[raisah]

Report her to the head, she shouldn't be discussing this outside of school. Surely this is a breach of confidentiality & mention that her prejudiced comments will reflect badly on the school. That should wind the head up.

[Viviennemary]

I'm not surprised you were upset by this. This person was insensitive to discuss it like this as she didn't know the circumstances of the people present. But I've heard that this percentage of children on free meals used as some sort of indicator for schools. Not nice.

[Saski]

She should report the teacher for saying that there are 9 FSM kids at her school? Really?

I think this probably stings a lot to hear a comment like this, but as many have pointed out, it's just the nature of statistics. You could draw far more meaningful inferences from what a child packs in his or her lunch than whether they're eligible for a free one, but the data's not easily available.

People make clumsy comments, and they learn. It's happened to me before.

[Saski]

^^ to clarify, I mean I have made really clumsy comments before, and then realized what I've done, and felt horrible. I would guess she's quite possibly figured out how insensitive it was.

[IsabelleRinging]

Get real raisah, she works for a school, not the CID and she hardly signed the official secrets act. Teachers are allowed to discuss their work believe it or not, and I thought she was a friend of the OP (she did go round for a coffee) not a random person.

[ravenAK]

If she'd listed the kids, then she could be done. I think the number on roll on FSM is in the public domain, eg. Ofsted reports - at the least I'm fairly sure they say whether the proportion of kids getting them is higher/lower than average.

[HanneHolm]

god yes
parents - go and look at the complaints thread.
just chalk itup to experience

[porridgewithalmondmilk]

OFSTED do, raven, yes

[dayshiftdoris]

OFSTED definitely list numbers of FSM - it freely available information... Local councils usually publish it too - I used it for a public health job when creating a community profile and it was on the local public health observatory.

[Lollydaydream]

Yes OP, it hurts when you realise you and your children are part of a statistic. And this teacher sounds fairly insensitive and resentful of children who need more help.

However I'm astonished at the lack of understanding of statistics and the judging of children who do need extra support on this thread.

[echt]

Where does the teacher come over as resentful, Lolly?

About FSM, as an indicator of educational attainment, it so strongly indicative, that the government does not apply it above, I believe 30% when comparing schools. For example, if a school's FSM stats come in at 35/40/50%, etc. the they are still compared only with schools of 30%, even though the government knows full well that the relationship is valid; the more FSM students, the lower the overall attainment of the school.

It's easy to see why HMG do this, they want to deny the reality of poverty/social circumstances, and whack the teachers at the same time.

The FSM/attainment link does not apply at the level of individuals, of course.

[Ghostsgowoooh]

So do free school kids get one to one if they have behavioural problems? Because the extra help wasn't forthcoming with fsm autistic ds