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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that Chris Huhne's son was very wrong to call him 'autistic'

357 replies

Sallyingforth · 04/02/2013 17:03

He is may be an unpleasant creature but that word should never be used as an insult.
order-order.com/2013/02/04/peter-huhnes-texts-to-lying-father/

OP posts:
Pagwatch · 05/02/2013 16:53

But Morris, is it not totally normal for a discussion to start about a specific situation and then evolve into broader issues arising from that specific situation.

I am not being picky but 'was he wrong to use x word' becoming a discussion about whether x word is an insult is hardly a massive tangent.

AmberLeaf · 05/02/2013 17:00

Yes fromparistoberlin, I love a ruck. Hmm

No I just have a black child who has a disability.

I expect you think Im just oversensitive though eh.

fromparistoberlin · 05/02/2013 17:06

aha, that explains alot

fair enough

but try and lighten up, you get so CROSS and most of the people you get cross with are fairly well meaning MNers that are actually quite nice!

there are worst fires to fight

good luck

AmberLeaf · 05/02/2013 17:10

Im not cross.

I know there are lots of nice MNers, I 'talk' to lots of them regularly.

This may not seem that important to you, but it is to me and my family so, sorry, but I wont be 'lightening up'

fromparistoberlin · 05/02/2013 17:15

did I tell you to lighten up? noooo I did not, and I would not dare!

and racism and disablism are very important issues. and MN (not this thread) has taught me a hell of alot

I definately call on stuff and notice stuff much more , esp around SN issues, and I have MN to thank

But I do ponder on what will you acheive by getting REALLY FUCKING ANGRY on MN AIBU threads ???? Just raises the blood pressure as far as I can see

AmberLeaf · 05/02/2013 17:17

You said try and lighten up in your post above mine.

Im not REALLY FUCKING ANGRY though.

My blood pressure is fine.

fromparistoberlin · 05/02/2013 17:18

so I did Blush

Pagwatch · 05/02/2013 17:19

Erm. Fromparistoberlin - you just post 'but try to lighten up'.

I think generally telling someone to lighten up when they have just told you why an issue is important to them isn't the best idea.

Pagwatch · 05/02/2013 17:20

X-posted.

Almost every aibu has irritated people arguing. It's kind of the territory.

Spero · 05/02/2013 17:21

I am back to talking about him because I think it is hyberbolic and unhelpful to use him as a prime example of disablist language.

yes he shouldn't have said it, it is sad he said it, I wonder what his reaction would be if someone challenged him about it

BUT it seems that anyone for whatever reason who uses a disablist term is lumped in a big homogenous group, all as bad as each other and that is what I just don't think is helpful.

I gave the example of my racist dad versus Nick Griffin. I think that is a helpful analogy.

By all means, you can say that you disagree with the need for the distinction, that all and any disablist language in any circumstances is wrong, but surely there have to be degrees of badness? I just can't accept that PH is as bad as RG, FB etc, etc, just as I can't accept my dad is Nick Griffin or Hitler.

That is the only point I am trying to make. I think it explains the unease of some people on this thread when others are 'horrified' by PH, think it is the 'worst' thing he ever could have said. etc.

aldiwhore · 05/02/2013 17:23

I completely agree with every single poster who has voiced their hurt at this phrase being used. I also agree that it was an awful choice of word and actually in many ways worse than the outdated and offensive words such as 'spaz' etc., BUT....

Mitigating circumstances. Huhne Jnr did not write these words to offend everyone, he wrote them in anger. He was wrong, but his rage shold be taken into account. Yes, he shouldn't have used that word as a weapon or as the 'lowest insult he could think of' and yes it was offensive. I do though feel that his rage and hurt must be taken into account, and he's guilty of thoughtlessness to others, which often happens when red mist falls.

I have called one person a fat ugly stupid twat before now, not nice, not grown up, offensive to many (myself included probably!) but in a rage we name call. It is a shame he chose that particular word, I can think of many more that wold have been less globally offensive and more accurate.

Amberleaf you don't need to lighten up. I do think context has a lot to do with it. Hopefully when this storm has died down for Huhne Jnr, he will apologise or regret that choice of word, but right now he's in his own storm and I doubt somebody telling him he's being offensive won't help anyone... right now. My brother once called someone a Gaylord. He was wrong. He was in pain, intended to offend and spoke a playground insult. He's not homophobic and in his calm grown up state would never use it. It was slang those days and widely used. Just as 'morbidly obese' is now one favourite phrase in the playground since calling someone a fat twat has been outlawed. There's nothing nice about it.

iclaudius · 05/02/2013 17:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

iclaudius · 05/02/2013 17:26

He's only young

Pagwatch · 05/02/2013 17:29

Am pretty sure I have agreed with you on that Spero.
Certainly I have repeated ad nauseum that I feel very sorry for him.

My preference would be that the idea of throwing out an insult to do with a disability ceased to be something people did. I think that takes time and people thinking about what they might be implying when they autism in the middle of a sentence designed to hurt the target.

desertgirl · 05/02/2013 17:29

iclaudius, did you read the thread?

iclaudius · 05/02/2013 17:29

In fact I think it's disgusting Peter has been dragged into this media circus - poor lad has been through enough
This thread should be deleted and a totally innocent third party left out of this sorry mess

Politty · 05/02/2013 17:30

Take heart PeneloPeePitstop - it is a long road but we are far further ahead then most other countries in the world and despite the blips we are still going forward! Just remember the para Olympics and see how many people were entered from each country! We have shamed the rest of the world and I am not saying for one moment we are there but lots of people are trying one way or another - so different from how it was in the early 20th C. I cannot see that stopping BUT I do think and feel clumsy and ignorant comments made by some especially the distressed young must not be 'jumped' on .. by making these comments one's thoughtlessness and selfishness can be exposed, then reflected on and the learning process takes place .. and we want people to learn don't we? Vilifying people for being thoughtless and clumsy is potentially as bad as any 'ism' . We want people to understand and be kinder we not at war here. I am not horrified by these comments, I see it for what it is, a young terribly distressed possible selfish with youth (Selfishness ..thats normal for the youth) boy crying out and using the wrong words. My cup is half full not empty, this is an opportunity to educate more. clearly people who have no experience of it do not understand what Autism is and what it means .. thats not a crime but a new goal for all.. get the message out. Meet a few idiots along the way, ignore those and keep going. Now off to start that new thread and glad this is not about the young lads texts .. but a wider issue!

Pagwatch · 05/02/2013 17:31

Good grief.

Read the thread iclaudius.

Spero · 05/02/2013 17:32

Sorry if I am repeating myself. I am not excusing him because I feel 'sorry' for him - although I do, very much so.

I just think there HAS to be a scale on which we measure human behaviour. Saying that every disablist insult in every context is just as vile and disgusting as the next is going to alienate all those who have been careless, who regret that carelessness and who want to learn.

Pagwatch · 05/02/2013 17:33

Isn't PC gone mad really too cliche for anyone to actually use in real life anymore?

iclaudius · 05/02/2013 17:36

Apparently not pagwatch
I have a twenty year old son and an asd son and without getting piled on by the MN elite I feel we should leave the poor boy alone

hackmum · 05/02/2013 17:38

spero: "surely there have to be degrees of badness? I just can't accept that PH is as bad as RG, FB etc, etc, just as I can't accept my dad is Nick Griffin or Hitler."

I do agree with you. I don't particularly want to have a go at Peter Huhne, who presumably never intended for his texts to be made public. However, I do find it sad that "autistic" is used as an insult of choice, because Chris Huhne's behaviour was emphatically not autistic. Selfishness is not a feature of autism - probably the opposite in fact. People with autism have difficulty in reading social situations or other people's emotions, so they might not pick up (for example) on when someone's tone of voice is sarcastic or when someone is making a joke. It doesn't make them self-centred and uncaring of others, which I think are the qualities that characterised Chris Huhne's behaviour.

Shakirasma · 05/02/2013 17:39

I'm shocked to hear you say that iclaudius, because as a parent with an autistic child I found your first post one of the most offensive on here.

DameMargotFountain · 05/02/2013 17:39

Spero, but what i don't understand is why people have to UNLEARN their 'carelessness'

if i'm careless with language i use words like asshole and wanker - not 'retard', 'spaz' or 'cripple'

Pagwatch · 05/02/2013 17:41

Spero

I am not excusing anything because I feel sorry for him. But nor am I castigating him because I think he was acting in extreme circumstances and he was stupid and clueless rather than deliberately vicious.

But a hierarchy of abuse doesn't help much. I know what you mean - I had a very nice chat with a very old lady who kept calling my son retarded. She was trying to help me and clearly did not intend to offend so I wouldn't berate her.

But to just brush off every comment because it is not as bad as other stuff isn't great IMHO because the language we accept as ok when we are pissed off or don't really know better will just remain there, unchallenged.

I just think saying 'could you think about using this word. Think about how you are using it' is fine.

I hope that everyone leaves PH alone. I hope too that one day he might think that maybe I should think about that. Not now obviously. He has bigger fish to fry.

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