Private schools - want to shout IT'S NOT FAIR!

[Yermina]

Went to PIL last night and heard all about sil's children's school. One of her boys is already attending a fantastic private school. Just found out his two brothers have also got places at very good private schools.

In the mean time my dc's are in classes of 31 at the local state school. My youngest needs additional support (sn) but isn't statemented (diagnosed but no statement) so doesn't get it. SIL's middle child has got into a mainstream private school that has outstanding support for children with dyslexia, which he's been diagnosed with. And will be in classes of 18.

Our middle ds is musically talented but there is really poor provision for music teaching at his state school and very few children there are learning an instrument. We struggle to pay for music lessons for him outside school.

Is it wrong of me to feel eaten up with jealousy and anger at the unfairness of a school system which privileges the children of well-off people so openly and seemingly without anyone else seeing it as something that's wrong or deeply, deeply unfair?

How would you explain to a group of children: you lot over here will have XXXX spent on your education, and lots of opportunity to develop your talents, and you lot over there will have about half as much spent on you, and will have much less attention from the teacher because there'll be twice as many of you in the class. Oh, and you kids with sn or specific gifts - unless your parents have money, you probably won't get the help you need to thrive educationally.

I know it's the way the world is but at the moment I feel bitter about it. Really really bitter. And jealous

Every time I go to my PIL's and have to hear about all the amazing thing SIL's dcs are doing at their school, their academic achievements, I want to go home and hide under the duvet and cry.

We'll never, ever be able to afford private education. We'll never be able to afford to move to an area with really good state schools. We'll never be able to get our children into church schools as we're not church goers, and our local grammar schools (2) are bursting at the seams with children from the local private prep schools, who bus their students in to take the 11+ en mass.

It's just so fucking unfair. It really is. I just want to get that off my chest.

That is all.

For all the posters who are unhappy with state education - there has been plenty of research suggesting that kids learn about 80% of what they know outside school, i.e. at home, extracurricular activities, from their friends etc.

This does not mean that you have to teach your own kids every evening in a formal way.

Lots of learning is best done informally, e.g. numbers when you go to the supermarket, encouraging writing emails/letters/favourite recipe/stories, lots of reading, trips to library/museums. Many museums organise free activities during the Holidays. Cooking together, involving reading recipes, measuring ingredients, writing shopping lists etc. etc. It is doing what you always doing, but maybe being more aware how you can consciously make it in a learning experience for your child.

It's always slightly odd that on the one hand posters want to close private schools as the advantage they give is unfair, yet on the other hand they say they're not up to much...unqualified teachers, rich but dim pupils and now festering posts of drug addiction...

If they really are so very very bad, then why not leave us parents who love nothing better than to send our DC to these crack dens to it?

JustGetting
I have family in the SW Valleys and there, for some people, the "get a good education and get a good job" message rings hollow. And no some people really don't push their children because education has delivered nothing for them so why battle with your reluctant teenager to get them out of bed to go to school.

The fact you are pissed off at the quality of education means you value it. Consequently you will push for better and do what you can to redress the balance. What I was trying to get at (probably phrased badly) that you need the parents to buy into the idea that education has a value if they are going to push for improvements. However, it is hard for parents who are trying to tackle a range of other problems as well.

I agree that there is educational selection by wealth in this country, you only have to look at house prices around good state schools. Perhaps a lottery is the answer.

I support this charity in SW Wales and you look at some of the statistics about the issues the young people are facing and you realise they need all the support they can get. valleyskids.org/

OP, I feel for you. but surely you don't think it wrong that your SIL's children have such brilliant education? You just want it for your DC too, and fair enough.

I agree with posters who ask, have you done all in your power to improve your DC's chances, wherever they are at school?
Have you looked into bursaries, scholarships, downsizing your home, moving, changing careers, getting a lodger etc etc. People who decide they want private schools and aren't on six figure salaries do an awful lot of restructuring their lives to make it possible. Lots of effort goes into it.

I don't buy designer anything, nor does DH. I don't go to beauty or hair salons.I do all that myself for next to no money. Clothes come from Ebay, groceries are basics brands. We have a 10 year old car, go on camping holidays once a year, our house is pretty scruffy and we're very happy this way.We save loads of money just by not wasting in on the tat the meeja tells us we need. I appreciate not everyone can afford private schools, but as many posters have said, many more could if it were their top priority.

A friend of mine has a joint household income of over £65k and two children. She can't afford private education. But her family are dressed in designer clothes and eat twice as much as we do. They go to America every year. We earn a lot less but can afford it.

OP work out how much you spend a month on stuff none of you needs. Take away meals? Video games? Coffees from Starbucks? New make up and this season's blinkin boots? It's unbelievable how much that stuff adds up.

The amount some MN posters spend on clothes, beauty, holidays, cars, restyling their homes staggers me. These things are never aggressively judged by others on here, but as soon as anyone dares to spend on education out come the nails. Why?

dikkertjedap - that has to be with young kids though.

If you want your children to pass their GCSE's - I can't believe 80% of that learning comes from outside of school.

I look at the stuff my DS is doing in Music, the physics type of stuff & chemistry - not to mention maths & my brain boggles. I passed O levels in all of these subjects (at my mega crap state school) a million years ago, but I can't remember hardly any of it - so I'm virtually no use to my DC unless it is subjects that I've carried on using since I stopped school.

dik I think those activities are good ways to educate little DC...but once your DC hit the teen years...

Sorry - should have been clearer, I did mean a family of 3 or 4, therefore 1 or 2 children!
I do think it is perfectly possible for a lot more people to use the private education system than actually do. I have friends who send their children to state school & spend money on good foreign holidays while mum stays at home & spends a good couple of hours or more doing work with the kids or ferrying them around to various activities. Their income is similar to ours, probably more but they have chosen to put the effort in from home instead of school. The home ed brigade is getting bigger by the minute. Yet more people wanting better than the state system provides.
If all those that could go private with a little personal sacrifice then I truly believe it would also help all the children in the state system too! But with the little pot of money given by the state system for each child, what can they really provide? Basic at best!
Yes I work full time (apart from when I'm off sick at the moment), yes my DH works full time. Yes we chose an area miles from family to be able to afford private education. But we have made sacrifices! My DD see's her grandparents only 2 or 3 times per year, we don't have a support network when things go wrong (like being off sick), we don't have foreign holidays, ipads, sky tv, 2 decent cars between us etc. But we are happy with our life choices because they give DD more life choices than we have had. And we are very thankful to be in this position.

Crossed with you post.

I think no amount of wighing out icing sugar will teach DC Latin, particle physics or the reasons for the Vietnam war .

What about bursaries?

If you really want your kids to go to private school, apply for them, sit the tests, and also apply for a bursary?

If your kids are good at music, then you have a better chance of getting them in.

Of course, I think most education is done at home, and private schools aren't all they are cracked up to be.

Great point dikkert - I think one of the fundamental things is just to keep talking with your children about everything that comes up I hope so anyway as I'm not such a practical person
I do think those that go private or send to otherwise good schools actually over-estimate the effect of the school and under-estimate the effect of the family life of those choosing to send children there.

"If you want your children to pass their GCSE's - I can't believe 80% of that learning comes from outside of school. "

You do know that people get GCSEs from state schools, don't you? Just checking...........

I agree racingheart.
We have the same situation, and can afford private school as a result of some serious saving and scrimping. No car - foreign hols every other year for a week.
can't remember when I was in a hairdresser last - 6 years ago? I cut and colour it myself, and buy all clothes cheaply from primark / sales.
We eat out about once a month in wagamamas - when I have a voucher..

It can be done, but you really have to want it.

Pugs.

Yes, once again I agree, however I don't think the opportunities are as widespread as you may believe.
We H.ed but only have one min wage coming into the home.
2 of our dc are either out of education or due to leave soon, leaving dd. We have paid for many extra curricular activities, mostly for dd as dss were very cheap or free.
We pay approx half school fees per year on activities. However, no amount of cutting back would give us the same again to pay full fees, and this is for one not 3.
I don't value a private education above H.ed for dd, it suits us fine. However, I will agree with you as the people I mentioned in the other post had nothing other than basic needs because private education was so important for them. I mean she made her own dresses, patched dss uniform, one v old car, much smaller house than they could have had, no foreign holidays, no big expensive xmas. Really just the basics.

wordfactory, it's the mix of sour grapes, reverse snobbery and genuine expectation that state should educate the children, full stop.

I think "sour grapes" is a really odd choice of phrase in the circumstances.

Why is it "sour grapes" to notice the huge difference between schools and provision and find it unfair?

juggling I htink that's very true in the early years.

I know lots of parents who put their DC's skills down to the school, and yet these are wonderful, supportive, educated articulate parents who can't do enough for their DC and have money galore as well...I suspect they have a lot to do with their DC's success .

However, as DC get older, I htink their school and peer group become far more influential. Even the most supportive, educated parent cannot be an expert in everyhting. Nor can they be, nor should they be, the arbiter of their DC's tastes and life choices. This is where a good school and a decent peer group are worth their weight in gold.

"wordfactory, it's the mix of sour grapes, reverse snobbery and genuine expectation that state should educate the children, full stop."

No it isn't. But hey ho, if it makes you feel better to think like that, then feel free.

rollmopses Tue 05-Feb-13 12:39:36
"wordfactory, it's the mix of sour grapes, reverse snobbery and genuine expectation that state should educate the children, full stop."

In my case, it is the experience of actually having lived in a country with a comprehensive system that worked. So yes, the last item of your post might well apply, but I have no reason for sour grapes and reverse snobbery doesn't really apply either.

Have to say something about the very annoying term "reverse snobbery" .....

We all like to identify with those in our own social groups and justify (at least to ourselves) our own choices.

There's nothing really "reverse" about it. We're all really doing the same thing !

Pugs

Could you imagine the headline though, and those waiting to lynch the parents.

"WE USE OUR TAX CREDIT TO PAY PRIVATE SCHOOL FEES".

Because that would be in effect what we would do, if we did value private over H.ed. The Private tutors at present cost approx £40 per week, even out of term time.

This is an area I know a little bit about.

Two one bed flats for rent. At least 8-10 private schools in the vicinity, where you can get a decent education for £10k a year.

Many minimum wage jobs for both parents, as there are retail parks, many supermarkets in the vicinity. Opportunity for high-paying jobs as well, especially in the tech sector.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-25556040.html

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/property-33873403.html

Where there is a will, there is a way. Two min wage parents could send a child to private school here.

In fact, I was just talking to my driving instructor in a very rich part of the country, and he sent his daughter to private school, because it was important to him. And I guess he and his partner are on very average incomes.

But hully many posters argue that private school is rubbish. They queue up to tell of its rotten ways ...how thier local state school is sooooooo much better.

So where is the advantage? Where is the unfairness?

If state school is better, then leave us poor deluded fules alone. We hurt no one!

I don't think it's sour grapes by the way, or reverse snobbery...just someone who really hasn;t got to grasps with their argument.

It's interesting though, that often at the start of these threads poster who choose to privately educate their children will wax on about how child is sensitive/gifted/sporty/musical and state provision is dire (and that is true in some areas) and that there are children from all backgrounds, arriving by old banger/donkey etc...

...but gradually the thread evolves and we get to the fact that choosing private school is mostly about social selection; that you want your child to mix with children in a certain social class with certain values.

(i'm not jealous, my children have very good state provision in a city school where over 70 languages are spoken, an active parent body and, on the whole, a hard working committed teaching staff - and it's all free)

Word - Oh those ones, I see. Well, I still wouldn't say "sour grapes" I'd say a necessary self-defence mechanism to avoid feeling bad about the evident gulf in provision and access to it.