to ask: What's the point in school uniforms?

[allrightluv]

They serve no purpose and promote conformity. Differences in income are expressed in other ways - shoes, bags, mobiles, in fact, even more so. Kids are judged by which school they go to (state/private). Thanks to the uniform you can tell by a mile off. Kids wear brands anyway - after school, at the weekends and in the holidays, so it's not any cheaper to wear a uniform to school. Consumerism is the most pronounced in the UK of all European countries.

Other countries like Sweden have no uniforms at school and few uniforms in work life, too, and rate much higher in terms of kids' happiness etc.

I'm not saying there's a causal link, but uniforms are not helping...

... and they would have got new clothes when they grew out of the old ones anyway, plus if they had had uniform I would have had to buy new uniform -- teens grow in all directions.

I never said anything about state vs private, don't be putting words into my mouth please.

I did not grow up in this country and the social system of education baffles me as much as the next person

I'm really puzzled by the idea that uniform 'fosters a sense of team spirit' - in what way, exactly? I wore uniform at primary and secondary and can't remember it making me feel part of a team at all. Maybe it fosters the kind of team spirit that means one set of kids will batter another set of kids who just happen to come from a different school with a different uniform, but beyond that, really?

Only argument I can see for it at secondary is that it gives teenagers something safe to rebel against. You don't have to go to dangerous lengths to assert your growing independence, you can just customise your uniform.

the team spirit thing - my dd feels proud wearing her uniform because it gives her a sense of belonging - she is too young to consider the concept of rival groups or gangs or anything like that

My Dcs hated their uniforms, there was no sense of pride or belonging there.

They wore them because they had no choice.

My daughters haven't worn uniform at primary school - they all adored their school and very much 'belonged'.

There isn't a single argument to be made for uniform other than 'because we say so'

It isn't cheaper, isn't easier, doesn't reduce bullying, doesn't eliminate parent/child squabbles, doesn't make good discipline where there was none. The only things uniforms manage are to make the manufacturers some cash and to get children in to dull, uncomfortable clothes as young as possible.

Parents should be on the streets yelling 'NO UNIFORM TYRANNY HERE' but it's so entrenched that it's a good thing that everybody lines up to say 'I heart uniform'. Really? Really? Makes NO sense to me.

Hate hate school uniforms.

I really enjoyed my dss phases of goth, emo, smelly rocker and then by magic transforming into normal adults at 17 and looking lovely.

My dds now as young teens are experimenting and to he fair it often ends in them looking like extras in a pole dancing club but hey they will learn.

I work in a school and have a ridiculously disproportionate time wasted chasing school shirts/shirts that look the same... Just a waste of time for me and a waste of serious cash for parents as kids can't tell the difference between their green fleece and 30 others!

Pathetic.

As for being part if a 'group' then I think that's sad. I always wanted my kids to go their own way and be, as my dds call it being 'indie'' that's individual...

Schools should concentrate on what's important, behaviour, work, manners, aspirations... Not the colour or length of a tie...

I see the reasons for having uniforms, but I think that special needs children who have trouble dressing themselves are very often marginalised by some teachers who insist on absolutely everything being tickety-boo.

Can't see what all the fuss is about school uniforms. My DD wore a drop waisted dress (no hitching up) in summer and a tartan pinafore in Winter. (again no hitching up). She had 4 dresses for summer (sports gear on the 5th) and 5 shirts for winter with the one pinafore. She didn't mind the uniform. It was a fairly exclusive girls school but when they had mufti days or school camps, none of the girls had designer gear . Just basic T shorts, etc.

I think uniforms generally need updating with modern materials.
School shirts from asda and acrylic jumpers are horrid if one has big breasts, and feel scratchy.
I think t shirts and hoodys would be perfectly good uniform and more comfy and practical.

The tartan pinafore mentioned above would be a nightmare for someone over a 32 bra size.

My class still laugh and cringe at the maroon bloomers we wore for PE. I kid you not.

I can see where a pinafore might be a nightmare but this one was particularly well cut in fabulous fabric ( yes, rather expensive, but she wore it for 4 years) and I never ever noticed anyone who looked uncomfortable in it. They then went on to a senior uniform.

I prefer uniform. When we were still in the UK my DS and DD wore school uniform - as long as it was the school colours, it was fine.

Where we are now, there are no schools with uniform except for private or Catholic schools and I miss them! My DD can ruin a pair of jeans (holes in knees, grass stains etc) in 2 weeks, she is that rough and tumble. Uniform back home was easily bought for not much money and took the stress out of the morning routine. I spend so much more replacing clothes now than I did then, and stuff comes home with holes, pen marks, missing buttons etc...

However, I don't agree with policies that are rigid and require you to purchase expensive items that can only be bought at a particular shop. Or that dictate silly things like sock colour

I'm pro school uniform.

Easy and saves money ....and all the children in our primary school look smart.

I'm Dutch - no school uniform there, and I still haven't gotten used to the UK system.

I don't like the uniform very much, but it's no big deal. I do think it's a little patronizing to let kids wear uniforms in secondary school though.

My son has no interest in brands whatsoever. He is perfectly happy to wear charity shop clothes and also gets t-shirts etc. from family for birthdays and christmas. So the uniform actually costs us more money than we would otherwise spend on clothes. Fortunately my son's school has relatively cheap uniforms.

I don't understand why the kids need to wear uniforms when the school personnel doesn't. It'd be easier if the personnel was instantly recognizable by their clothing.

The tie is nothing but a fashion item, and it's completely arbitrary to allow one fashion item and rule out others.

As for conformism - in my experience uniform or no uniform has little impact.
In the Netherlands my son was bullied in school because he's (apparently) unusual, and his teacher actually said that he could understand why the other kids picked on him (because son was so odd)
Here, uniform or not, his individuality has been embraced in primary school and even more so in secondary school. He has not been bullied and has had a very happy school time - uniform or not.

I love the uniform DD1 has here (NZ). School polo shirt (short or long sleeve), school fleece for winter, and then any black trousers/skirt etc. There are school shorts/skort but they are very much optional.

The principal told me the reasoning was, there was some level of conformity etc, but the option of whatever bottoms as long as they are black helps with the more reluctant uniform-wearers. "You have to wear the t-shirt, but you can have your skirt or trousers"

It's also a much more practical uniform for primary age than the one I had at a similar age (tie, pinafore, shirt etc)

In my opinion pride in the organisation fosters pride in the uniform not the other way round

My DS attends a shamefully crap school with a nasty black plastic uniform with clip-on ties. His uniform would not look out of place on a scarecrow. He also attends army cadets - his uniform is crisply ironed by him each week and his boots polished like glass.

Didn't foster team spirit or pride when I went to school, we were all very glad to see the back of it, in secondary school it can be terribly unflattering, especially when all those womanly bumps and lumps start appearing. I do wonder about schools that obsess over uniform - have they got nothing better to spend their time on.

It gets DC's used to wearing a tie (very useful if you have a DC with sensory issues through Autism), it gets them used to wearing clothing not of their choosing (useful as a lot of jobs have a crappy uniform), it means that their everyday clothing doesn't get ruined (things like washable paint that stains, permanent marker etc), it can be bought cheaply without looking cheap, and it is a very simple way to allow the DC's to break some unimportant rules (by not wearing their tie properly, leaving their shirt untucked or leaving their top button undone) which often prevents them from breaking the 'bigger' more serious rules.

I for one, despite the extra costs (am on benefits), am happy with school uniform. Mostly because when I started school, my 'progressive' school didn't have a uniform, and the comments and bullying I got about my clothing was horrific.

I think it's essential at secondary level because it gives the disadvantaged kids one less thing to worry about. I was the poor kid at a non-uniform primary and was bullied because I had to wear hand me downs from a wealthier girl in the class. My mum was friends with her parents and they gave us her clothes. The humiliation of having to wear a patterned skirt to class that another pupil had thrown away was awful, especially as every one knew.

When we got to the uniformed secondary, I breathed a sigh of relief because even though the stuff was old, no one could tell who it came from and I could lie and say it was new.

If a kid needs to keep a set of uniform at school to be washed by staff because there's no one to do it at home, then he can at a uniformed school, without being stigmatised for wearing the same clothes day in day out.

Frankly, I don't care about teens who have money 'expressing individuality' etc etc - they can do that at the weekend. Just give the poor kids a break.

Well I certainly don't enisage having to buy another stitch of uniform until DD leaves school. I have piles of hand ons. DD is happy to wear them. However, I don't think she'd be happy wearing her friends' passed on non-uniform clothes. At least not in quantity. She sees those clothes as an expression of herself and is really fine tuning her tastes. She puts thought into it. And she is more than happy that none of her clothing budget is spent on school wear, uniform or not.

and they would have got new clothes when they grew out of the old ones anyway, plus if they had had uniform I would have had to buy new uniform -- teens grow in all directions.

My dd is in year 10 and i havent bought any new uniform since she started year 7. She is 5'5 so not tiny, but I think she has grown about 3 inches. The girls only wear skirts which are far more forgiving than trousers for growing upwards. Skirt also had adjustable waist so not a problem there either.

My ds had trousers replaced several time as he went from 5'2 to 6ft but always bought next size up in sales and never paid a huge amount for uniform. His 6th form suits are more expensive but then he has had to use them out of school anyway as he already has had interviews for various things as well as a job that required shirt and tie and smart trousers.

Agree that it's much easier to buy uniform whenever you see it cheap - I bought school trousers years and years ahead in charity shops and in sales, safe in the knowledge that it would fit eventually. I now can't really buy non-uniform ahead for DD because I don't know what she'll like, or what will go with the rest of her wardrobe.