to wonder why my lovely DD is so unpopular?

[Itsnearlysummertime]

DD1 is 9. In my opinion she is lovely. She has no friends. She hasn't been invited to a party in over 2 years. She has never been invited on a sleepover.

We have had problems with her fitting in at school and even considered moving her, but she doesn't want to move. I fear that if I move her against her will it will only make matters worse.

She goes to a small local school with only 1 class per year. There are about 14 girls in her class including herself. A few a 'queen bee' types with one more so than the others. The rarely acknowledge that she exists. There is a constant stream of sleepovers that she is never invited to and I can see that it is wearing her down. It's making her sad and withdrawn. She doesn't understand.

Other than not being very girly or being bothered about the latest fashion etc, she is just normal. Nice hair, pretty face, average build a bit taller than average.

What can make her so unpopular? I just don't get it. School don't see why it is, but acknowledge that it's happening.

I feel so so sad for her and want to help but just don't know how any more

Oh my non girly girls are doing fine OP honestly I am sure your dd will be alright but if you think it is really that bad then move schools if you have too,

I think if you can move schools - you should look at it.

I went to a small village school and I didn't fit in.

It was better in secondary school but but then I thought I was the problem that it was my fault - so it was so much harder for me to get people did want to be my friends that there wasn't something wrong with me.

I think it took most of my secondary school years to get over the exclusion from Primary - even at University and beyond I still find myself surprised people chose to be friends with me or include me in things.

It is probably just the fact they have nothing in common with your dd rather than they actively dislike her.
What she needs is a bigger pool to look for friendship groups in whether you wait until secondary or move her to a larger primary depends on what your daughter wants.

We've just been out for a coffee and cake as DD2 went to her friends for tea. We had a lovely chat. She was empathising with a boy in her class whom children were being mean to today, so much so that he spent dinner time crying. She said she just doesn't understand why people are mean, or what they get out of it? She's very astute! I have advised her that she should tell the teacher that happened so it can be dealt with. She did tell the dinner lady atbthevtime.

It was a good way to start talking about how things are at school for her. She maintains that she can't play with any girls as this one girl (mentioned before- there is history) won't let her, so she has just given up. For example last week she tried to play with some other girls and was told by ring leader that it was a secret club and she wasn't a member.

So a vicious circle emerges. She doesn't try any more, others think she isn't bothered so just leave her be. Her friend was off today, she spent playground time on her own.

It's heart warming to hear a lot of you saying it will get better as she gets older. I sincerely hope this will be the case. She certainly has the makings of a mature young girl. It's just so hard to watch her go through this in the hear and now.

I wish I was brave enough to just move her as some of you have done. I hope I don't live to regret this decision in the future.

Sorry for the 'queen bee' reference, not meant in a nasty way, just can't think of another term that describes this child any better.

To those that ask how play dates have gone in the past? Some not bad to be honest, but she does end up alone on most. I guess she's just a loner.

I agree wholeheartedly that forcing children to pay together or inviting for tea isn't the right thing to do.

please please talk to the teacher

this child is unkind and its should be addressed. They need to be told that exckusing little girls and telling them its a secret club is unacceptable behaviour and constitutes bullying.

I think you need some written exanmples so they dont just dismiss it!

I feel very strongly that schools need to far more reactive and pro-active.

focus on this first

Here is a sample anti bullying policy pasted below, you can google and easily paste 20 into a word doc, each and every time highlight where they talk about exclusion and unkind behaviour. then school might be shamed

What is Bullying?

Bullying is the use of aggression with the intention of hurting another person. Bullying results in pain and distress to the victim.

Bullying can be:
? Emotional being unfriendly, excluding, tormenting (e.g. hiding books, threatening gestures) SEE!!!!!!!
?Physical pushing, kicking, hitting, punching or any use of violence.
?Racist racial taunts, graffiti, gestures.
?Sexual unwanted physical contact or sexually abusive comments.
?Homophobic because of, or focusing on the issue of sexuality.
?Verbal Name-calling, sarcasm, spreading rumours, teasing.
?Cyber All areas of internet, such as e-mail and internet chat room misuse. Mobile threats by text messaging and calls. Misuse of associated technology i.e. camera and video facilities.

www.education.gov.uk/schools/pupilsupport/behaviour/bullying/f0076899/preventing-and-tackling-bullying/schools-accountability

spiteful and unking behaviour is not tolerated in many professional enviroments, and schools need to lead the way

. OP this IS bullying and is not DDs fault. You must explain to her that it is NOT her fault. Make an appointment to see her teacher and demand this is changed. Ask them what they are going to do about changing the situation as she is being excluded.

Poor DD. I can see that even you began to feel the blame...questioning whether DD had done something....you knew she hadn't I see that...but this kind of insidious bullying is the worst.

It has to be changed.

DD was bullied in her old school and we moved her because the school would not deal with it. Shortly after we removed dd and wrote to the LA advising them that the head denied any bullying occurred in the school, the head teacher was removed. Several parents had made the same claims before our letter.

She has had a few instances in her new school where one girl in particular has been horrible. However this school deal with the issue.

You need to go to the school and tell them this girl is excluding your dd from playing with the other children and ask them what they intend to do. Often the children don't realise how hurtful they are being and it may be a simple case of speaking to the girl.

It may not be that simple, but you won't know until you try.

This is what happened in dds school. But if the girl tries to exclude my dd again, I will go back as often as I have to.

You have to be firm and the school must deal with it.

WRT those taking offense at the "Queen Bee" reference, then in my case I used it to be polite.

If I had wanted to be more descriptive about their behaviour I encountered as a child I think you would have found it more offensive.

Yes they are children, but adults dont have an monopoly on being mean and sadly young/teen girls in particular can be downright nasty, spiteful and bullying.

We do not allow talk of "secret clubs" or any type of "gang" etc at our primary school.

I think the teacher should be informed . Sounds like they need a circle time talking about it with all the children in that class.

I think if she is happy playing with a boy friend though, there is no reason to discourage that in any way. My daughter has always got on better with boys as friends than girls. I do sympathise,though. My own son has had similar problems and he has no-one he can call a "friend" now at Senior School. Sadly, people he has made friends with in the past have all moved away!! I could cry for him sometimes...however I think I worry about it more than him. He seems fairly happy in his own company.

Yes the "Queen Bee" is referring to that book isn't it "Queen Bees and Wannabe's" hardly offensve!

I think moving to a bigger school helped as my DD found other people like her. I don't agree with inviting over people my DD does not like. Her old teacher suggested she keep quiet and try to take an interest in what other girls were interested in.
As a mother of 3 daughters , I have found some girls to be horrible and not worth trying to befriend.

OP I went to a school with the one bitchy queen bee, I actually stood up to her a couple of times and paid the price. She was the angelic blond haired blue eyed child and no adults ever believed me that she was so nasty. I was so lucky that she actually moved out of town and out tiny village school became a lovely place after that. She used to do the excluding thing, no one allowed to play with me (when it was my turn to be picked on) If theres no chance the queen bee is moving, get into the school and tell them she is being excluded, if nothing is done or it gets worse look at moving her, the queen bee won't change.

I used to teach a class of 8/9 year olds with massive issues regarding the girls' attitudes and constant bullying and competing problems. It was a constant struggle to be 'queen bee' whilst different girls took their turn at being in favour or being isolated with a few that were always at the bottom of the pecking order. It was a nightmare.

BUT I do remember this one girl who was never involved in any of this behaviour, just kept clear of it all. She wasn't interested in being a popular girl but she was never picked on. In fact she was very much liked by all girls and boys in the class. She was a great girl with a fantastic attitude.

If I ever have a daughter I hope I can bring her up to have the confidence to just do her own thing and feel comfortable in herself.

I think you are on track - keep on giving her lots of positive encouragement, tell her how great she is, join as many out of school clubs and activities as possible, make her feel safe and loved by modelling confident, care free and fun behaviour yourself.

It must be hard - I was truly shocked at how nasty girls can be.

Fwiw, I was not suggesting that you 'force' a playdate upon your DD.

It just sometimes helps if they can improve/develop a relationship more quietly, away from the usual pairings and groupings at school.

It gives girls a chance to realise how well they get on iyswim. I think they can get into the habit of hanging outwith the same girls.

I'd have a look at other schools and see how they feel and see what your daughter thinks tbh. I had a horrible time until I went to high school which was huge with 14 classes per year group, being so big, there was space for all personalities! I'm still friends with the girls that I met at high school 16 years later :)

you need to have good self esteem to be confident in who you are and I don't believe that being different automatically means you'll get bullied.

I definitely think things outside of school are good for confidence (and making friends), I went swimming and it was so good for me, I knew it wasn't purely me that was the problem at school as I had friends outside of school.

MrsStewPot - I think that is great advice and very much my mother's attitude at the time (she was a primary school teacher, now retired) and recently she told me how hard it was to see my "isolation" and even with her experience finding it impossible to "fix".

So take comfort OP, its not easy, but a common theme of this thread is how often girls who sit outside the range of Queen Bee (yes i will keep using this term) tactics actually thrive in later life.

ime of dd and friends - move school

I have a 9 year old in a similar sized school. Has she considered a boy or a girl in a different year as her friend? In our school all years have play at the same time so there is quite a lot of intermingling of the years eg. My dd in y5 played It with y6 and y4. Not all 9 year olds do pink and fashion. Mine is girly but also likes sport, music, computer games, funny YouTube videos, art, cooking, collecting Moshi Monsters, singing...

I've been in school so many times last year I fear I'm becoming a nuisance. I haven't been in this term at all though so maybe another visit is due. I do have a meeting with class teacher on Friday so I will mention the secret club thing then.

Mrsstewpot interesting to hear from a teachers point of view. I hope my DD is as the girl you describe.

I have spent an an awful lot of time today at school trying to help sort out friendship "problems". Girls really are unkind to each other. It is not just the class I am based in...it seems to be in most classes. We talk and talk about these things at school,and the children all know what constitutes bullying,or being unkind,and what to do about it. But they just don't seem to learn or understand that it applies to their own actions.
Boys don't seem to hold the same grudges as girls, who will keep bringing up stuff from ages ago.

OP from your post about "coffee and cake" you DD sounds pretty level headed to me.

I would not encourage her to "need" people to like her. The fact that she has "given up" and focus's on the friend she has I think shows a lot of maturity and pragmatism (both good traits).

She has a friend at school - male/female dosn't matter. Focus on that and also activities outside school that she enjoys and builds confidence.

I'd put good money on her coming out the other side of this a lovely young woman, supported by a great mum.

Are you a teacher jamdonut

Thank you so much yellowtulip I sincerely hope so.

Oh she has her faults I know. I see so many good things about her though, I am sure you are right.

I think YellowTulips is quite right. For a start, she isn't friendless at school. She has a friend, and maybe she's the sort of person who's happier with one or two close friends (male or female) rather than a big gang of girls. FWIW, I was always that way at school myself, happy with a couple of (boy) friends, and I'm still the same in my 30s.