to wonder why my lovely DD is so unpopular?

[Itsnearlysummertime]

DD1 is 9. In my opinion she is lovely. She has no friends. She hasn't been invited to a party in over 2 years. She has never been invited on a sleepover.

We have had problems with her fitting in at school and even considered moving her, but she doesn't want to move. I fear that if I move her against her will it will only make matters worse.

She goes to a small local school with only 1 class per year. There are about 14 girls in her class including herself. A few a 'queen bee' types with one more so than the others. The rarely acknowledge that she exists. There is a constant stream of sleepovers that she is never invited to and I can see that it is wearing her down. It's making her sad and withdrawn. She doesn't understand.

Other than not being very girly or being bothered about the latest fashion etc, she is just normal. Nice hair, pretty face, average build a bit taller than average.

What can make her so unpopular? I just don't get it. School don't see why it is, but acknowledge that it's happening.

I feel so so sad for her and want to help but just don't know how any more

Aboit the sleepovers, ot seems you and DD have a passive attitude, ie waiting to be invited by others.

When DS said he was never invited to sleepovers, I said the first step would for HIM (us) to invite someone over, then they might reciprocate.

Same with parties etc. Even grown women on mumsnet complain at times about " not being invited" to things, but the first step is always to become very active, socially, yourself.

Is there a girl in her class at all she would like to ask to come over?

Also, moving school can really help but it is a big decision.

Chandon you are right - I am quite passive about it.

We have invited lots for tea - right up until the end of Y3 and they never invited her back, even though I know they were going to each others houses.

Then the last time she asked 2 for tea they said no. So I'm scared to initiate a sleepover as it looks like she has nothing in common with these girls as they won't play with her and will only end up having a terrible time. I would let her go if she got invited though. I hope that makes sense.

there is a girl in my dds class who is also left out. LIke your dd they are in a small school, one form intake. In their class there is a core group of girls who everyone wants to impress (my dd isn't in it but does get invited to play dates!).

Like you, the mum of the girl also feels sad and baffled why she isn't included. In her case it is a mixture of things - they are all very loud and confident types, they are a bit sporty/tomboyish, too. She doesn't seem to have much in common with them and they are a bit judge about her.

I don't know what the answer is, because my dd would also like to be in the group - we only joined the school last year. I try to encourage my dd to play with the other girl, but she only wants to be in the in-crowd too unfortunately. Perhaps that's what it is - they are all trying to be in the in-crowd and there are more girls than not who aren't included, but really want to be.

Your poor Dd. I really feel for you both, as my Dd was in exactly the same position. In seven years of primary school, she was never once invited anywhere, not one single party, nothing. I remember one year for her birthday (9th, I think), we invited a group of girls over for a party and a birthday tea. Only two girls came, and they played with each other and excluded Dd. At one point, they were whispering to each other and my Dd burst out crying. It was awful.

I spoke to the school on several occasions to try to find out what was wrong, and to see if anything could be done to help - but they were spectacularly unhelpful. They pointed her in the direction of the 'buddy bench' - but even when she sat there, she was ignored. I was a young single mum myself at the time, and lacked the confidence to take on the school - I really regret that now, and wish I had done more. We did talk about moving schools at the time, but Dd really didn't want to. I think we were both secretly scared that the same thing would happen again. She was a very quiet and withdrawn little girl as a result of the years of exclusion from friendship groups - and the thought of all the attention that being the 'new girl' at a new school would bring was too much for her to bear. Again, I really regret not pushing ahead with at least going to have a look round some other schools.

Dd is nearly 15 now, and secondary school has been a revelation for her. Such a wider pool of like minded people, and she now has a lovely circle of friends who meet up regularly at weekends and in the holidays.

I'll never know what caused her unpopularity at primary school, but it was a dreadful time. If it comes as any consolation to you at all, she has turned out to be such a lovely teenager - extremely empathetic and kind towards others. I'm incredibly proud of her.

Sorry not much advice for you, just to say that I'm in the same situation with my DD(8). Until last year I was still inviting other girls over for play dates and I made sure all the girls in her class were invited to her birthday party but still no change.
My daughter insists that she doesn't want to move school but that might change when her sister leaves for secondary school in august. Maybe if your DD has no siblings at school it would be better for her to move.
Good luck whatever you decide to do, I hope things work out for her.

I was that girl. Hated primary with a vengeance looking back on it, I could not cope with the silent treatment, being forced to go to people's houses who were nasty to me in school but nice as pie when parents were about only to spend time there being ignored / shut in rooms / left hidden when playing hide and seek to name a few.

Secondary was better, briefly, one school I had 1 person who would talk to me, a boy, and we were not allowed to be partners (very much boys versus girls) in group events. He was bullied too at the time. There was one year when I was very much involved in lots of outside of school activities (tactic to improve more people) and was bullied as a consequence - one particular queen bee was also involved in this. Then made a fantastic friend eventually who then moved schools and thus started the circle again. Ignored, left out, bullied not part of the circle. I had always had a lot of out of school stuff to do and it involved boys rather than girls at the time so that was another source of bullying.

Stopped when I went to college - made a lot of friends who I still remain in contact with to this day (and trust me that is too many fingers and toes ago!). I now don't put up with crap - ever. On any score. My best mate will always say to me "you have permission to be angry about this and say something - tackle it" if I call her and there is a problem looming. That is enough for me to remind myself this does not continue and it stops here.

Doesn't stop people trying to bully / demean / undermine / lie about you though - there are many sad examples of humans on this planet and I seem to meet more than my fair share of them.

Bigger schools do help - as does doing stuff with different people. Hope you can encourage her to look at the schools options and other activities.

I was in a similar situation with my daughter. She and I put up with it for 2 years. She eventually became quite withdrawn and tearful over silly wee things. We made the decision to move school. It was the best thing we ever did. She made some really good friends and the difference in her mood and personality was huge. Wish we did it sooner.

another to say speak to her teacher, say you are thinking of moving her

teachers need to be so much more proactive on how they seat people, how they allocate teams and how they spread tasks and group activities

They should give a shit, and they should be splitting up queen bees IMO

also agree to up the non school activities, be it drama/guides/sport

I also think consider changing school, as frankly it always seems to work out

bless you all xxxxx

like misslr I was also bullied (3 years at a VERY rough school)

You do carry it with you when you grow up

I've been there - there were only 5 girls in my year at primary school, the other 4 paired off. I was miserable.

My mum moved me, and that did help. It wasn't until I got to high school though that I found some really good friends - a bigger pool of potential friends means you are much more likely to find someone that you really have things in common with.

Yy, speak to the teacher and get to the bottom of it.

Do have an open mind though.i have a woman in DDs class who is always talking about her DD being isolated and picked on but her DD has got into the habit of tryingto be funny by being really rude.
Dd gets on with her but some of the other girls get really upset and don't want to be around her.

It's not her DDs fault, the whole situation has a history i won't bore you with, but her assumption that it is a couple of nasty quen bees doesn't help and isn't accurate.

I would want to find out what is going on otherwise even moving her could just end up with the same issues in a different location.
Equally, if it is any kind of bullying I would want the school to handle it robustly.

My dd went through similar. Her class as a collective were not nice. Too many alphas and so very many little emperors. DD immersed herself in dancing so given an invite (unlikely) for a sleepover, she would be declining anyway.
Different story now she is at high school. All the big fish have realised that they had only ever been so in a small pond. In fact the biggest (and nastiest) fish in high school has found herself lacking in true friends.
DD made the loveliest of friends in high school, her confidence has shot up and her past experience has made her watchful for others on the outskirts. I couldn't be prouder of her. It's the quality, not the quantity

This will happen for your girl too when she goes to high school op, in your situation I would persist with the current school. Good luck to you and your lovely young lady

I just don't get what makes some children popular and others not?

I think lifestyle and life experiences also have something to do with it. As well as maturity, type of interests etc...
dc1 doesn't fit in. He has a couple of good friends but knows he doesn't fit. There has also been a few nasty comments going on. And there is little I can do about it apart from what has already been advised.

TBH, I think that for that small schools are just a bugger. One reason why I don't like them (But then there isn't really anything else around where I am so...) is that the range of children there is too narrow. Add to that that you are likely to find one type of background and if you don't fit that well within that mould, your dcs are likely not to fit in either.
And sometimes, just the way the child is is enough to make them stand out. there is such a thing as being too nice on the playground unfortunately :(

you say popular do you mean she has no friends at all at school/brownies sometimes girls can be on the fringes of groups and don't always have to be in the centre, if she has 1 or 2 friends that is fine does she play with other kids in the playground or is she on her own, is she really unhappy if she is generally ok then I would let her be and develop her own friendships, MY own DDs can't be arsed with all that girl popularity thing and had their own groups at school they couldn't stand all the bitching and what not, your dd doesn't need to be popular to be liked,

I feel sorry for your dd and I hope the school cash help.

My ds1 is like this, a bit of a loner but he is happy to be a bit of a loner, gets on better with adults.

I agree with tsc I don't like all this 'queen bee' and 'bitches/bitchiness' comments, these are children we are talking about!!

Oh and I hate all the queen bee type comments TBH no need they are little girls ,

What happens when she invites people over?

Does she have friends over to play /sleepovers ?

I must say that having been on the end of such an effort from my mother when i was being excluded by the queen bee....

THIS

"When's her birthday? Throw a party and invite all the girls over"

Is possibly one of the very worst things you can do.

Having a party and inviting all the girls over might be silly. But finding one or two girls she likes and having a play date might be really helpful.

Have you asked any of the other mothers op? Are you friends with any parents from her class?

I dont think there is anything you can do to make her popular. Why should she conform anyway?

At my DD's school there was a queen bee and her cronies. My DD has never been a sheep so even though she had friends, she was still excluded from lots of things. Funny thing is the mums of these girls were/are in a clique too! The mums talk about each other as do the girls!

My DD loves her secondary school. She has loads of new friends. The girls from primary school are still hanging about with each other at high school. They seem to cling on to each other for whatever reason. DD said she still hears them talk about each other. The girls will grow up and turn into their mums!

The really funny thing also is that one of these girls texts my DD regularly for advice about various things. I asked my DD why the girl doesnt ask one of the friends she hangs around with, DD said the girl asks her as she doesnt confide in these "friends" about anything.

As long as you encourage your DD to do something away from school and try not to care what these girls think.

you really honestly can't make these girls include her in things IME it doesn't work, Id try and see if she has friends in other places such as the play ground or brownies, and if these girls are as nasty as you think do you want her mixing with them anyway they might start including her and then move on to somebody else IYSWIM

Its not very nice, but it will pass. My primary school years were pretty similar. There was nothing "wrong" with me (I promise!) I just wasn't that "girly" and in reality was out of step with my female classmates interests and unable to hide the fact, or perhaps more truthfully unable keep my mouth shut ("why do you like Bros? They are rubbish", "no I don't have a cabbage patch doll, I'm 10 not 5", "don't expect me to wear a pink ra ra skirt and leg warmers, actually not in any colour", "do we really have to listen to the Fame soundtrack for the 50th time and dance on tables thinking we look cool rather than silly").

It all changed when I hit secondry school. I met lots of other "non girly" pupils from other schools with whom I got on well and the "queen bees" quickly lost their status in a bigger pond.

If it makes you feel any better when you fast forward, in my case the girly queen bee's hardly stressed the education system or job market over the years and all the non girly girls all did very well both at uni and career wise (and in most, though not all cases are actually far nicer people).

and yes to when she moves up to High school my dds thrived especially dd2 who made loads of friends and only a few from her old primary school, they very rarely fall out or get involved in bitching that some of the more popular girls do,