To wonder how people are going to actually buy houses?

[slatternlymother]

There's going to be a whole generation that can't, isn't there?

What about those people who rented due to circumstances/not knowing if they wanted to live there long term/work commitments etc, and then hit the wrong end of the financial crisis?

We rent, and have (luckily) really well paid jobs for our age. We are 25, and between running a car, putting DS through nursery, and just living, I doubt we'll have enough of a deposit to buy anything reasonable before we're 30. 28/29 at an absolute push. And that will be pressuring us to make a choice on where we're going to be living, but we won't be able to leave it much later because otherwise we'll be tied up in a mortgage forever.

But we are so, so lucky. Actually, it was blind luck that got us here.

And if we're struggling, how the hell is everyone else coping? Tbh, I'd happily rent all my life, but I worry about retirement age and no longer being able to pull in a decent wage.

AIBU to think that long term, more and more elderly people will have been in rented accommodation their whole lives, so when they do retire; they're going to have to fall back on the state, aren't they? To put them up in council accommodation?

Isn't this just a massive time bomb for the future?

Sorry for rambling thoughts, I just have been thinking about this quite a lot recently

It is quite interesting and depressing that my generation is the only one since the start of the twentieth century which will experience a lower standard of living than their parents' generation.

We earn less, paid more for our education our housing costs are higher, we will be working longer and our retirement income will be lower. The things that many of our parents generation took for granted, home ownership/decent council housing and a lengthy and comfortable retirement are unobtainable luxuries to us.

I wonder how this will happened? In part I blame the baby-boomer's selfishness. The impulse of my grandparents generation, scarred by the war and the great depression, was that their off spring should have something better. As such that post war generation have got used to having the best of everything, see at as their birthright and politicians pander to it. If this comes at the expense of their own children's futures the baby boomers seem quite happy with this.

'expat encourage your children to emigrate because of course they will be better off with higher interest rates and no NHS. When you find this utopia please tell us so we can all move there!'

You'd stay in a country for interest rates and healthcare when you're young, single and childfree?

In response to NumericalMum - it's my in-laws, not my parents who are in rented housing. They never expected to be housed in a huge house by the council, but I do think they are within their rights to expect their rent to be topped up by housing benefit the same as everyone else. I have never asked about their pension plans but I'm fairly certain they didn't plan for my lovely FiL to suffer a massive stroke in his early sixties leaving him without speech and dependent on my MiL for 24 hour care. From what I've heard from my DH they earned very little from farming and life was hard for them throughout, buying a farm was always out of their reach.

The thing is our parents parents usually died between 60 and 70, so what do you want a good quality of life or longevity ? Because quite simply we can't have both.

This is why true, Mosman. I saw an article that of girls born today, more than ever have a life-expectancy of 100, but not with good quality. Dementia. People say rates have risen, but what's probably happen is that a lot of people died before they developed it.

Blimey Mosman that may be the most depressing thing I've ever read.

The lack of empathy and the rigid "black and white" opinions expressed by some on this thread (and out in society generally) is vile. Talk about "I'm alright Jack".

Do some people not have the imagination to consider, for a moment, that for some people - and this group is getting ever larger due to the current economic climate and ever increasing financial pressures - it does not matter how hard they work (if they are fortunate enough to have a job) because they will never be able to afford to buy their own home. This does not mean they're lazy, or feckless, or stupid - but that their particular skill set simply doesn't pay enough - and don't think I'm just talking about those in MW jobs. This group wouldn't just need to save a hefty deposit but they'd also have to earn enough on multiples to get a mortgage as well .... you can surely see why people become so despondant at the though of saving specifically for a house (though obviously it's always a good idea to save for the unexpected if you can) because to make up the difference between what they can get on a mortgage and the actual sale price, they'd need to save a deposit of 50% or more in many cases. And of course month on month at the moment most people's "disposable" income (if you have any at all) is being eroded by increased fuel and food (and everything else) prices.

Are some people so insular that they can't imagine many others literally have no disposable income anyway once essentials have been paid for ..... where, once you've economised as much as possible, the only scope you have for spending less is on heating and eating ? (lesser quality, lesser quantity) You cannot "cut back" indefinitely because sooner or later you find you've cut all you can.

It's surely the mark of a civilised society that its citizens have an adequate and secure roof over their heads. To "blame" everyone who can't achieve this rather than sympathise and feel angry on their behalf really does show an utter lack of basic human decency IMO.

Why is it depressing ? Honestly I look at some of the 80 year olds plus in surgeries being brought in by their DIL/daughters, never the sons with various ailments, usually had the entire family up half the night wailing and in pain or just confused and honestly if they were a horse you'd have some heart and shot them.
Sure there's the odd spiretly one but even then what's the actual point in just living for the sake of it?

Just adding my data point, I'm 28 & DH is 27, both uni graduates. We rent and will be renting for the forseeable future- once upon a time we both worked full time so theoretically might have been able to save up a 15% down payment by now, but I became disabled a few years ago and had to give up work completely for awhile- I'm back to work now, but only part time so we don't have much to spare now for savings.

Among our similar age friends, the only people I know who have bought since the crash are people with help from parents or money from an inheritance. We have neither, so will be renting until we are both back in full time work for several years with no emergencies. One thing that is helping though is that my MIL is about to become our landlord- not the same as having our own place, but it'll feel more like our own than renting off someone random as we'll have autonomy to decorate, etc.

Our big dilemma with housing assuming I manage to get back to work full time in the next few years will be children- we both want DC but will find it almost impossible to raise the money for a deposit if we're paying childcare or one of us gives up work. By the time we will realistically face this choice I think I'll be 32 or 33, and I'm already subfertile so it may be that we will have to choose one or the other.

I agree, Mosman.

You don't think it's depressing that you either die young, top yourself or grow old miserably?

Well, one way round the problem would be to adopt a less blinkered planning system, less directed at big housebuilding companies.

eg if 1/3 of all new builds had to be self-build. Building standards requirements mean standards should be kept up, but people who have skills but cannot afford to get a huge mortgage might be able to afford self build, if individual plot prices were no longer unrealistically inflated due to scarcity.

It might also mean less urban blight/sprawl from the current zoning system, which in effect means only big developers with massive bugets to build large developments can get involved.

Of course, changing regulations in this country so that you now need a qualified electrician to fit a new switch cover in your own home, and effectively barring your DH who has a degree in electronics engineering to do it, is not the way forward.

Another suggestion (and it will be very unpopular) would be to raise Inheritance Tax on inheritance from property sales, and plough it back into council house building.

Personally, I think this is fairer than increasing tax on working people's salaries to redistribute wealth.

Interesting ideas LessMiss. I hate the fact that Barrett Homes and the other generic building companies dominate all new housing work.

Creating soulless slums of the future with tiny windows, like there is some sort of medieval window tax. This is for another thread entirely, but why do they make the windows so small and the ceilings so low in new houses? Is it purely to save materials or is it about energy saving?!!

No. I find it reality for many, if not most. Yes, you do get the sprightly ones, but for many quality of life isn't good and the more people who live longer and longer, the more quality probably will drop. Everything has a drawback, including more and more people living longer. The whole care home and pension time bomb is example of that.

It may be reality but that doesn't make it any less depressing surely.

Get old. Die. Nope, I don't find that depressing. There are far more things in life that are truly depressing.

Mosman didn't say get old - die though.

She said, die young or suffer. Very different IMO.

Depends on what you consider old, I guess. Reality, though. There isn't an economy around that can sustain a large percentage of people till live far into advanced old age in good health not working. That's going to mean quality of life into advanced old age will likely decline for many. That's just a fact. And we're starting to see evidence of this already in our own economy.

I'm not arguing that it's not reality. I just happen to think it's not a good one.

My grandfather had a shit old age. He had a stroke at just over 70. There was no treatment modern or otherwise. He basically rotted in a care home and all his savings were used for the privilege.

My Nanna on the other hand is 86 and although obviously more frail she has a very enjoyable life. She claims nothing but her state pension as luckily their house was in joint name so she couldn't be forced to sell it.

She's no burden on anyone. If I'm lucky enough to be the same it will cost the state a fortune because I won't have my own home. Thats the reality for too many people IMO. I don't think all of us renters topping ourselves on our retirement day is the answer.

Numerical how much did your parents buy their house for if you don't mind me asking?

Because a £52,000 mortgage at 20% (I know my parents mortgage was this as they have told me; don't think they got that interest though) is £875 per month. For people bringing in around £2200 per month (just over, actually). This is manageable. Sorry, but it really is. I remember these were the days when a weekly food shop cost £35 as well.

It's no good saying that that generation weren't bloody fortunate! Because they were. Yes, interest rates were high; but house prices were lower. Much lower. There's no denying that house prices were more in line with wages.

And also; you cannot force a relative to take you in. No one can.

If you don't have your own home, and none of your family would be willing to take you in, the state cannot force that as they are not responsible for you.

There are going to be a LOT of pensioners as a burden on the state if we don't watch this.

And people need to care, because it is our children who will foot the care bill in the form of higher taxes.

Also 40 somethings need to be aware that relying on an inheritance is daft. Once our parents age there will be inheritance tax which I think will rise (east target) care fees etc so there may be nothing left! And by 40/50 your kids are mostly grown and a family home doesn't have the same meaning. We need action now.

'And also; you cannot force a relative to take you in. No one can.'

And what if you've dowsized to a one-bed flat to rent or buy after your children left?

How will you take in this relative?

We have downsized because of my health but we have to keep enough room for ds to live with us for the foreseeable as I don't know any university grads who aren't back at home