To wonder how people are going to actually buy houses?

[slatternlymother]

There's going to be a whole generation that can't, isn't there?

What about those people who rented due to circumstances/not knowing if they wanted to live there long term/work commitments etc, and then hit the wrong end of the financial crisis?

We rent, and have (luckily) really well paid jobs for our age. We are 25, and between running a car, putting DS through nursery, and just living, I doubt we'll have enough of a deposit to buy anything reasonable before we're 30. 28/29 at an absolute push. And that will be pressuring us to make a choice on where we're going to be living, but we won't be able to leave it much later because otherwise we'll be tied up in a mortgage forever.

But we are so, so lucky. Actually, it was blind luck that got us here.

And if we're struggling, how the hell is everyone else coping? Tbh, I'd happily rent all my life, but I worry about retirement age and no longer being able to pull in a decent wage.

AIBU to think that long term, more and more elderly people will have been in rented accommodation their whole lives, so when they do retire; they're going to have to fall back on the state, aren't they? To put them up in council accommodation?

Isn't this just a massive time bomb for the future?

Sorry for rambling thoughts, I just have been thinking about this quite a lot recently

Not a popular view - and never going to happen! - but 100% inheritance tax would sort out the inequalities at least. At the moment, children (or grandchildren) of homeowners who don't spend it all on final-years care will inherit enough to get their own houses. Those who don't, won't. And of course, those inheritances will keep prices high as there will be enough people who can afford them.

Actually my sums are wrong and I haven't allowed for the tax advantages with childcare vouchers. Make it 2 years and 3 years of saving.

Although - that is a thought - perhaps the government should set up "house deposit" savings schemes where you can save up to a certain amount per month tax free but the money can only be spent on a house deposit.

Hmm - I quite like that idea.

The only 90+% mortgages going here are for new homes only. And there's not a one that's £100K.

'Perhaps we just have to accept that house ownership is effectively a luxury now not something we can all expect in our lives. Do we just need to readjust the way we think of salaryies and income brackets vs what standard living is attainable?'

We need to massively overhaul private-sector renting, for starters. Like that's going to happen.

But mummytokatie you're going to advise her not to have children until she buys a house? What if that isn't until she's 40?

I'm not criticising you, I just don't know that many people are going to sacrifice their childbearing years for a mortgage. Some do, granted. But not many. I'm just not sure that it's realistic.

Shelter are looking for your renting stories To present to Parliament - let the MP's know what we are all suffering!

100% inheritance tax would sort out the inequalities at least

Of course it wouldn't. You'd just get parents impoverishing themselves to give what they could to their children in their lifetimes.

When you say over-haul private sector renting what exactly do you mean?

I support changes to make it fairer for tenants eg more security, landlords obliged to be reasonable, do repairs etc, not force out tenants with little notice etc so that those who can't afford to buy feel that actually renting is not an awful alternative.

But the main issue with pirvate sector renting is surely the cost, that means tenants have little chance to save up and move on if they so wish. But how on earth do you control that? Increase taxation, council tax or CGT and landlords will simply increase their rents to cover it. Can you force private landlords to adhere to a cap on the rents they charge?

'Can you force private landlords to adhere to a cap on the rents they charge?'

It is done in other countries.

Just to give you a really stark comparison between the baby boomers (born 1940 - 1960) and Generation X (born 1960 to 1980) - dh (44), me (45) and dd (5) live in the 'affluent' South East in a miniscule 2 bed victorian terrace which we bought 10 years ago for 140k, when I was working full-time in a job which required a lot of travel. The house is now worth perhaps 200k. When we bought it, we put down a deposit of 30k, which we'd made on the sale of a flat we'd bought 10 years previously and which had been in negative equity for a while due to the recession/interest rate crisis/housing crash in the early/mid 1990s.

My parents are living in the same affluent South Eastern area, in a house which they bought in 1977 for 15k, and which was valued last year at 950k.

My mother has just inherited 500k because her father died and his one million pound house (which he bought in 1960 or thereabouts for £600) plus his various shares etc were split between her and her brother.

My parents are hoping to move to a bigger (!!) house.... using their inheritance and the money from the sale of their own house.

We (dh and I) have children. We desperately need a bigger house. I cannot work as I used to before the children if I actually want to be there for them before and after school or even at night, so I cannot earn what I did previously. Dh is not a high earner, but he works hard, 48 hours a week, to earn just over minimum wage. We are having to look at moving away from this area, to the north. 3 or 4 hours' drive from my parents. Who are now in their late 60s/early 70s and might begin to need us.

When dh and I retire, whenever that might be, I suspect we will have to move abroad to make our meagre pensions go a bit further.

We do not expect to inherit from our parents because there is every possibility that they might outlive us. My parents are lovely, but like others have said, they are unable to see that times have changed. My mother often says "but your father and I didn't have a washing machine when you were small". So, if I sell my washing machine for say, £200, I can have a house and a lifestyle like you then can I??!!

And is it a workable system or do landlords get their way on the sly with spurious extra "charges" in addition to the rent?

We were lucky - we never ever thought we could get a mortgage so didn't try but 3 years ago my landlord went bankrupt and we had to get out.

We managed to find a huge ex council house in a lovely quiet road in the black country. It cost us £116k (that's for 4 bedrooms, two bathrooms). The asking price was £30k more but the owners needed to sell.

The bank gave us a 90% mortgage (shock) based on our then outgoings. Fortunately one week before they gave us the mortgage my DHs loan finished so he was able to get another one for £12k - that gave us the deposit. The bank still gave us the mortgage as our outgoings were still the same. We are actually in a better position now then wwhen we were renting, financially.

There was absolutely no other way we would have been able to get the deposit - parents couldn't help and we had no savings.

We are in this position of homeownership purely through luck - bad luck of the landlord and house seller and good luck through the loan.

taketheribbon will your parents not help you, even though they have been quite fortunate themselves?

'And is it a workable system or do landlords get their way on the sly with spurious extra "charges" in addition to the rent? '

It puts most speculators and individual BTLers out of business, which is a good things, and leaves commercial/professional business enterprise as the major source of landlords, which is good because they are more able to absorb changes in the market and in it for very long-term investment. Lots of speculators and individual BTLers can lead to volatility in the housing market which is never a good thing for an economy.

You have sub-prime lending here and too many individual speculators. This isn't good long-term.

Of course it works when it's the law and enforced.

The letting agent system here is also unregulated and abuses many on both sides.

I was in my early 20's when I bought my first home - I was earning £15k and I got a mortgage on my salary alone for a one bed in London with a garden and parking!!

My parents were a Postman and a dinner lady when they bought their 3 bed terrace in London and my friend's parents were a tailor and a cook and were able to buy a beautiful 4 bed with a huge garden in North London - No way would salaries like that buy a home these days - possible to rent a room today maybe? Having a home, bought or rented these days is unattainable for the average worker now.

Because a government that is truly concerned with the whole of those it governs seeks to make it not about anyone's 'way', be they landlord or tenant, but about stabilising markets, through law, to avoid too much volatility, which benefits the whole.

Landlords in other countries are businesspeople mostly, not speculators, and the law treats them as such - no BTL mortgages, heavy taxes for those who are not businesses/corporations, rent controls, securer tenancies in which you cannot put people out with two-months notice.

Likewise, tenants must put the place back to its original state unless agreed in writing or the next tenant and landlord like the changes, have a reason for moving, give longer notices before moving, cover some basic repairs and maintenance and the like.

Sorry taketheribbon I know I am being a bit pushy, but I think your parents are being quite tight and mean actually. There is no way I would be using any fortunately gained inheritance at that age; I would be using it to help my DC. To move to a bigger house? Goodness, how about helping their dd out a little bit? They sound quite selfish, and I'm really for you that you will be forced to move away because they won't help you out in any small way

Gah not 'not using any fortunately gained inheritance at that age'! Don't Internet bank and MN at the same time!

I meant to say, I wouldn't keep it all to myself at that stage of my life because there would be only so much enjoyment I could get out of it. I'd personally have far more pleasure helping my DC and DGC out.

I'm not saying it's a right for parents to help out their DC; I just don't see why you wouldn't if you were financially able tbh. That concept is totally alien to me.

^ 'Can you force private landlords to adhere to a cap on the rents they charge?'

^ It is done in other countries.

It used to be done in the UK too.

Slatternlymother no I won't be putting it like that. What I will tell her is that once you have children your finances get a lot lot worse so anything that she really wants to do in life needs to be done before having children. Whether that is trips around the world or buying houses.

And that sometimes you can't always get everything you want and only she (and her husband / partner if she has one) can decide what matters.

Incidentally - during this fantasy conversation with my teen/ 20something dd I still look exactly the same as I do right now (except thinner as I'm no longer pregnant). She, of course, will hang onto every word I say and definitely won't have purple hair, body piercings or tattoos!

Anyone who thinks the state has to house you needs to take a walk around the city centre's at 12am and have a look at how many people are on the streets.
You'd really put yourself in that position rather than work out a way of raising the deposit on a house ?

You don't really get it do you Mosman there is no way on god's green earth that many of us could raise a deposit. It is not like we are suffering from a lack of creative financial thinking or are spending every penny we earn on frivolities. B

Many of us,

A) Have to pay sky high rents and therefore find it nigh on impossible to save for a deposit.
B) Wouldn't get a mortgage as house prices are out of kilter with our meagre salaries.

We are not choosing to not buy, it is an absolute impossibility.

The answer for me if it was a case of paying sky high rents would be find a cheaper one and there will be if you look hard enough, we rent our house out at £250 a month below "the market rate" because I am hoping the person will look after it, she's somebody we know in a round about kind of way. So if they needed to save a deposit there's £3,000 a year straight away.
In our current situation we are renting whilst saving and have gone for the worse house, three beds when we really need 5. It's not impossible and given that people are going to be starring homelessness in the face it's a choice between hardship now whilst you're young and fit or hardship when you're not.

'The answer for me if it was a case of paying sky high rents would be find a cheaper one and there will be if you look hard enough,'

Oh, then jolly for you! So all those who honestly cannot find cheaper is to leave their jobs then? So they can move some place cheaper and be jobless?

Here we go again! They're all to blame! Just didn't find somewhere cheap enough!

Oh, move out then! Great! Now I have commuting costs and the price of petrol is rising, the tax on it will increase, and it will cost us all more to commute and pay for food. 81p on every litre of petrol. And set to rise. Even if you don't drive, so? That cost is the cost of commute, of haulage for food.

TBH, I'm allright, Jack. My parents will leave me enough, even bar care home fees which they have already purchased, and their funerals and burial plots and even headstone, to buy a place outright, even here. Or I could fuck off. So I should just say bollocks to everyone who can't do the same?

What are they supposed to do? Key workers, but on too low a wage to buy, paying sky-high rents. Fuck 'em, idiot nurses, fire personnel, police, care workers, nursery workers, cleaners, what have you! Go live in a tent (illegal), urban camp in caravan (illegal), find a friendly garden shed for rent (illegal).

Sod them all!

As I said it's not going to be a case of if you're fucked, more when so better to be in that position when you've two working arms and legs than when you haven't.