to think judging ignorance is wrong?

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

Bear with me.

If someone has lack of knowledge or protocol, should they be judged?

Where does the ingnorance come from?

For example, if someone one here writes "their going to the zoo?" surely the fault lies with the education taht they have had, or perhaps dyslexia - so to judge would surely be unreasonable?

Anither example, if I went to a Mosque and didn't take of my shoes, through sheer lack of awareness, perhaps my host should be judged for not informing me of the requirement?

I'm sure there are many more examples, but I'm struggling to believe that ignorance is really ever the fault of the individual, but that feels rather cop-outish, iyswim?

Ugh.

That's rather stream of consciousness.

I hope you understand.

[gulp]

Tis Bliss, surely?

I think people should educate themselves rather than saying 'I didn't know ...no one told me' - we have the www now - it's not hard

Depends. Ignorance comes in many shapes and forms. I do judge willful ignorance (e.g. I don't need to know the language of the country I am in, everyone speaks English anyway) and passive ignorance (a smidgen of curiosity would have ensured you'd found out what you need to know).

In the two example you gave Chaos -

1. The thought 'Oh FFS proofread before posting can't you' would float through my mind but would be instantly forgotten as I continued to read. Wouldn't really judge that, just have my attention to what they were writing slightly interrupted (pedantic tendencies I'm afraid). Although in some contexts, I might also take such mistakes as an indicator of the writer's distress, blurting things out as fast as they can type. Like I said, it depends.
2. Passive ignorance. Someone going somewhere unfamiliar and not asking if there was anything expected of them. Yes, I'd judge.

Bit of both.
Individuals have to take responsibility for their own actions. So it is up to the individual to seek out knowledge.
However on some instances you are thrown in at the deep end with no chance to prepare an wouldn't even know what questions to ask anyway.
Sometimes it's no ones fault, sometimes it's everyone's fault.
In your mosque example it is everyone's fault. Guest should have been watching host for ques, host should have made sure the guest knew what was expected.

"Where does the ingnorance come from?" Sometimes from their family, if they have no interest in knowledge. Sometimes because they didn't bother to listen at school, sometimes because they have no interest in anything outside themselves and their immediate environment.

What annoys me is people who revel in their ignorance - wearing their lack of knowledge as something to be proud of.

Well what is wrong with judging - we judge everything - sometimes positively sometimes negatively.

Surely having judged it is what you actually do that matters.

So - having read a post and noticed that someone has spelt they're as their - you think "they have spelt that incorrectly" you would actually be rude and utterly ignorant to be outwardly/publicly aghast or publically sneer at them - unless you were checking that person's work eg a teacher. But you are entitled to think what you like of it (and I say this as a dyslexic bod).

But judging is natural and is inherent in us as individuals and society as a whole - it is what you do with it that counts.

Ps if the ignorant act were to cause upset or danger then I would suggest interference from the enlightened folk. Eg the mosque example - so would expect someone to take the ignorant bod aside and explain it to them politely.

As to the spelling and grammar fascism, that used to be me too, hands up.

Then I met a women with dyslexia who had a phobia of pencils brought on by her treatment at school. She had eventually become a rather talented writer ( with a computer) after deciding " fuck all those wank stains in Oxbridge it's my language too" and just wrote phonetically.

She was the first person to introduce me to phonetic scrabble ( utterly brilliant !) you can pretty much any spelling if your good at accents!

Now I'm much more relaxed ( and probably domt annoy as many people) however correct spelling, punctuation and grammar should be expected in certain professional situations for reasons of clarity

It's all very well saying that people should educate themselves, but if they don't know that there is something they need education on, they aren't likely to do that are they?

The OP made me think of a thread on here when someone used the word 'coloured', and got a pasting for it. I can't remember the details, but it was clear that the poster wasn't being deliberately racist and just genuinely thought that use do the word was acceptable. In that instance, I think judging the ignorance was unfair.

I wouldn't think it was unfair about someone walking into a mosque and not removing their shoes, because common sense would dictate that if you have never been in one before, there might be something you need to know.

Some people have a low IQ.
Not their fault.
Actually, everyone has different levels of IQ. We cant really help that can we.

Judging ignorance is the same as judging laziness. some people feel a drive to work and do stuff, others don't...it's just natural variation in the gene pool.

Some people feel a drive to educate themselves (and for instance would not go anywhere near a mosque before reading up on protocol), and other don't.

Being proud of being educated is the same as being proud of being smart, tall, athletic, tenacious, hardworking, friendly, loving etc.

It makes no more sense to be proud of your personality than your natural hair colour...it's all in the genes/upbringing, neither of which you are responsible for.

Sometimes I feel I am quite ignorant in my judgements of things. For example if I see a very dirty, grubby child in the street I automatically think 'FFS use a baby wipe at least' whereas in hindsight I wonder if that child has just caught the parent off guard doing something extremely mucky, if that parent isn't able to have access to wipes/a quick wash at a sink, if they were happily playing at home and something happened which caused them to dash out or if perhaps the parent thinks a bit of dirt won't hurt and are happy as long as their child is happy.

Really it's absolutely none of my business but I do get ashamed at myself sometimes and am trying to stamp it out as I am aware others judge me and it's not a nice feeling.

Quick fire thoughts like that make me feel ashamed of my own ignorance in making snap judgements where I shouldn't and especially of things which are of absolutely no concern to me.

Depends what you mean by judged.

If you mean have you look down your nose at them - then yes, that's wrong.
If you mean form an opinion - everyone does and those that say they don't are lying

but what we should be doing is educating.
Don't look down your nose - certainly, but challenging ignorance and educating is important.

To take your example of not taking your shoes off - would you expect that nobody should say anything, because you didn't know and they shouldn't judge - or would you expect that people would take you aside and bring you up to speed and then expect you to change?

And once you have been made aware - should you change? That's the big question. And if you don't, should people then judge?

Hi btw.

hmm ICBINEG. You may well have a point.
One of my DDs can be sat watching the news, but then comment on the type of hat a reporter is wearing, not really having much of a clue on what they are reporting about!
A lot of people just are not interest in politics for example,and I dont think ever will be. Even though they may know it is important to their lives.
I think some ignorance doesnt matter so as long as you are with someone who is interested in certain things.

I think it depends - if it is ignorance or inability due to circumstances or due to something beyond someone's control, it's a bit arsy and mean to judge. E.g. someone who hasn't had access to good education, or who has a condition like dyslexia which means they struggle with spelling.

If it's down to willful ignorance or laziness (e.g. posting in txtspk because you can't be arsed to write properly, or not knowing the difference between their, they're or there because you never bothered to learn the difference) then judge away.

I do make judgements about someone who consistently doesn't know the difference between there, they're and their. Because dyslexia aside, it isn't actually hard to distinguish between them, and most people with a certain level of education don't get them wrong. I don't necessarily care as such - if my childminder gets them wrong for instance, it has no impact on anything much. But if my doctor or my kid's primary school teacher does likewise, I would be a bit because their jobs do need a certain degree of accuracy in spelling and attention to detail.

My examples were stonkingly crap.

Here's a better one:

I went to a village cricket match - first one old every been to. There were about 30 DC playing happily around the boundary - they all knew the restrictions of not going on the the pitch and we're being carefully watched by increasingly merry parents. My DD3 who was around three at the time strated to play around the the big white screen. I had no idea that this was a heinousccrime, but the whole mass of spectators did an audible SIOB and threw me dirty looks. Now, I honestly had no idea.

And that's why it's wrong to judge, folks. Wrong wrong wrong. Sometimes we're thrown into situations where we have no clue as to the protocol.

Still bitter 6 years in

Don't think you can compare laziness and ignorance really, ICB, isn't laziness a choice? And ignorance a lack of experience/education in sone instances.

Hi, Hect, think you're missing a capital.

Absy, not disputing your post, obviously, chuck, but I'm interested in people's perception - can ignorance be wilful?

Surely its just a natural, almost passive state, and everybody's level is different?

I think people can be. There's a couple of people who I've worked with, and I work in a specialist area. They've moved into this specialist area, and seem to have little interest in developing even basic knowledge, they're just in it for the career boost how they are in this job to begin with is a mystery to me but anyway

nope. It's Whoopass. One word. Sounds like a whip being cracked

Genuine Ignorance: I really had no idea there would be funny rules about where you stand at a cricket match, so I didn't think to check.
Wilful Ignorance: I couldn't care less if there are stupid rules about where you stand at a cricket match, someone will inform me if it's a problem and then I will whinge about how I didn't know so can't be blamed.

I think most ignorance is genuine tbh. Even when you tell someone the same thing over and over to a person they can still be genuine ignorant because it's the kind of information they find hard to process and remember (like correcting the spellings of an adult dyslexic person is more likely to upset them than to actually ensure they get it right next time)

Sigh. Yes I am dyslexic, please excuse above mistakes.

I am dyslexic, I had to work hard to learn homophones. My DH is not dyslexic and does not have a low IQ but uses the wrong forms because he can't be bothered, I do judge him.

For example, if someone one here writes "their going to the zoo?" surely the fault lies with the education taht they have had

Hmm-that seems a bit of a cop out! If a teacher taught the child the difference between they're, their and there, but that child chose to look out of the window, daydream or talk to their friend, is it the teacher's fault that they didn't learn it by the end of the lesson.