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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Yesterday was Holocaust Memorial Day. I'm afraid we're heading that way again.

448 replies

garlicblocks · 28/01/2013 11:21

"It is estimated that close to 250,000 disabled people were murdered under the Nazi regime. Persecution of people with disabilities began in 1933, but mass murder commenced in 1939.

"The organised killing of disabled children began in August 1939 ... All children under the age of three who were suffering from conditions such as Down?s syndrome, hydrocephaly, cerebral palsy or ?suspected idiocy?, were targeted. A panel of medical experts were required to give their approval for the ?euthanasia? of each child. In the first few months of the program this was usually achieved either by lethal injection or by starving the child to death. Many parents were unaware of the fate of their children, instead being told that they were being sent for improved care.

"The first experimental gassings took place at the killing centre in Brandenberg and thousands of disabled patients were killed in gas chambers disguised as shower rooms. Now that a fast and effective method of mass-murder had been developed it could of course be used to exterminate gays, Gypsies, political opponents and of course over six million Jews.

"Worryingly, in 2012 in Great Britain, Geoffrey Clark, a local government candidate for the UK Independence Party in a by-election in Gravesham, Kent posted this on his website:

"Consider compulsory abortion when the foetus is detected as having Downs, Spina Bifida or similar syndrome which, if it is born, will render the child a burden on the state as well as on the family."

"Although UKIP suspended Clark?s party membership when this hit the news, it was too late to cancel his candidacy. He came second to the conservatives with almost 27% of the vote."

What can we do about escalating persecution of the disabled and otherwise 'unproductive' people in the UK? Are we heading back towards forced sterilisation and murder?

OP posts:
PeneloPeePitstop · 29/01/2013 08:32

It's actually comical in a way. Well it would be, if it wasn't deadly serious.

People are relating things that have and are actually happening yet there are people reporting as they're 'offended'.

Offended that their shiny little bubble might be burst.

Let's hope neither them or a family member doesn't become ill. You have to work if you have terminal cancer now, you know?

WhoeverHeardOfAWormskinRug · 29/01/2013 08:36

theplodder

"What job would you expect a mentally disabled person to do ?"

I would expect a mentally disabled person to be supported by a society that gives a shit about them. I would not expect them to be given the low-paid crap jobs that nobody else wants to do.

For some people with disabilities, just being able to make a meal for themselves, shower themselves, wipe their own arses are achievements. But no, not good enough - they've got to go and clean bogs, skivvy around and be treated like dirt.

Dawndonna · 29/01/2013 08:37

Recently went to appeal for dh's mobility element. The appeal was held in a building on a busy main road with no onsite parking! We had to get ds to take a morning off work, drop us outside and then pick us up. Madness!
(We won)!

Bluestocking · 29/01/2013 08:41

Maybe I'm not expressing myself very well this morning. I agree with the suggestion that we are being encouraged to think of the old, the poor (but only the "undeserving" poor), the disabled and recent immigrants as an unacceptable drain on "the rest of us". I just don't agree that most 1930s Germans would have been horrified by the idea of millions of Jews being killed, because extreme anti-Semitism was the prevailing orthodoxy.

theplodder · 29/01/2013 08:52

Why should i protest about a policy i believe is correct?

PeneloPeePitstop · 29/01/2013 08:56

Persecution is correct is it?

WhoeverHeardOfAWormskinRug · 29/01/2013 08:57

Wow, just wow.

theplodder · 29/01/2013 08:59

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HecateWhoopass · 29/01/2013 09:01

For crying out loud.

The problem is that people are being assessed as fit when they are not.

This has been proven. It has been demonstrated over and over and over again. Actual people. Specific examples of it.

What part of that is difficult to grasp?

HecateWhoopass · 29/01/2013 09:03

And do you understand the system for applying for disability benefits?

The gigantic forms? The assessments? The supporting evidence from your doctor, consultant, etc?

Do you think that people phone up and say hey, I'm disabled, give me some money?

they already have to prove it. this is happening despite them already having proven it

JakeBullet · 29/01/2013 09:04

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PeneloPeePitstop · 29/01/2013 09:04

The word of a specialist consultant isn't enough? Because that's what used to happen.

Not a private company who had nurses with no specialist knowledge assessing 'clients'. These nurses have targets too, so it's not about accurately assessing the level of disability.

Hence the £150 million needlessly wasted on Tribunals which could have been prevented had the level of disability been correctly assessed. Most of which were won once medical evidence was assessed correctly in court.

Would those who think this is acceptable expect to work if they were terminally ill?

BreconBeBuggered · 29/01/2013 09:07

Anyone who thinks sick and disabled people are terrified about benefits not rising or being cut 'a little bit' simply hasn't been paying attention. In many sases they are being withdrawn altogether, often from people who even the widely-loathed Atos say are not going to be fit for work when their time-limited benefit ends. People who have no functional mobility are facing having their support to remain mobile removed altogether. Essential care services are being cut dramatically. All from people who have been assessed, time and time again, as being in need of support. Plenty of people out there think this is fine because it's happening to strangers who are not like them, who must have done something to deserve such treatment.

JakeBullet · 29/01/2013 09:08

Lets not forget either that these nurses don't even get the final say....or any doctor but a medically unqualified "assessor". Good isn't it?

theplodder · 29/01/2013 09:17

In your paranoid fantasies, do you believe that the government is preparing euthanasia centres and mobile gas chambers for the disabled? That'swhat the Nazi program did. Maybe you should be directing your ire towards those who flagrantly abuse the benefits system, reducing the levels of funding and resources available to the genuinely disabled.

People will get used to less generous benefits, but they are not being removed altogether. I rather suspect those resorting to foul language abuse are those for whom lavish benefits have been supporting a life of leisure.

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes · 29/01/2013 09:18

DP recieves DLA and in all honesty we've never found the process of applying difficult. He hasn't been asked to see an assessor. We also receive a concession on our Council Tax. Again, this was very straighforward. I wonder if things are going to get more difficult?

JakeBullet · 29/01/2013 09:25

I have worked for the last 30years love....when were you born? My guess is my taxes paid for you to go to school, see a GP and contributed to the Child Benefit your Mum got. Life on benefits....not until the past year and trust me it's bloody hard, certainly not the lavish lifestyle the Daily Mail would have you believe.

Right I am out of here....that's me done with this thread. May those of you welcoming the changes fall flat on your arses some day....may life kick you right between the eyes long enough to realise what is being lost with these changes.

Bye bye

sparklyjumper · 29/01/2013 09:25

theplodder, are you actually Ian Duncan smith ?

BreconBeBuggered · 29/01/2013 09:25

but they are not being removed altogether

In many cases, this is exactly what is happening. And 'a life of leisure', really? Looking after severely disabled children 24/7, for the rest of your life? It's hardly the big prize in life's lottery, is it?

HecateWhoopass · 29/01/2013 09:25

Oh for heaven's sake.

Yes.

They are being removed.

There are people who it has been proven have had benefits removed from them that never should have been.

Some of them have died because of it.

The government has admitted the truth of that. Have admitted that yes, these cases have happened. Yet you choose to believe that isn't actually happening?

And fyi - I run my own business. My husband runs his own business. We are not living a lavish lifestyle on benefits (like that ever happens anyway). I am not personally afraid of benefit cuts. I am afraid of the changes in attitude and the way disabled people are being screwed.

you are dismissing everything we are all saying about our personal experiences and about the facts as independently verified, because you want to believe that nobody who really needs help would ever be targeted and therefore those who are being targeted don't really need help.

That's very safe and cosy for you.

It's only sad that it's not the reality.

theplodder · 29/01/2013 09:28

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HecateWhoopass · 29/01/2013 09:31

ok. if you say so.

BreconBeBuggered · 29/01/2013 09:32

Good God. Hordes of immigrant disableds, coming over here, stealing our women and our cattle.

sparklyjumper · 29/01/2013 09:32

hecate I think your words are sadly wasted on plodder. He/she is simply reading a script from the DM. I predicted the word scrounger coming out and then she knows a family up the road who get x,y,z. I could have said it before she even did. Who cares that people are dying as long as I'm alright huh?

Kendodd · 29/01/2013 09:35

I absolutely agree that disabled people can and should work and I think it is much much worse if the rest of society rights them off and throws them onto the scrap heap as useless and only fit to receive benefits. Should we right Stephen Hawkins off and says he's not fit to work? and yet I'm sure he would fail every fitness test going, and yes, I know this is an extreme example.

imo disabled people are doing themselves a great disservice fighting to keep non working benefits, they should be fighting for proper support in the workplace and an end to discrimination about their abilities. This opinion isn't even about the money.

A friend of mine has an adult son (about 20) with learning disabilities. He likes to lie in every day until about 1pm. If he wasn't disabled she would be on his case every morning, nagging him to get up and get a job. He's allowed to lie in because care has to be 'person centred' and all about their needs and wants, and he wants to lie in. As I said, imo, this is not doing him any favours.

"they've got to go and clean bogs, skivvy around and be treated like dirt"

Well somebody has to do these jobs and you seem to have a terrible attitude towards the people who do do them, and I am not in any way suggesting they should be reserved for the disabled over able bodied.