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Original poster

To complain about this teacher

75 replies

pinkyponk67 · 24/01/2013 18:51

DS (age 13) told me that his French teacher gave the class all the questions and answers in advance for an upcoming speaking test. She got them to copy out a set of answers which she told them would get the highest level if they used them in the test. DS asked her if this was cheating and she said no but it sounds like it to me. WWYD?

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 24/01/2013 18:53

Sounds like cheating to me-I would question it.

ohfunnyhoneyface · 24/01/2013 18:54

She's giving them an example answer? Doesn't mean they will be able to remember it, I imagine in oral exams that is quite normal.

storminabuttercup · 24/01/2013 18:54

They did this years ago for me, I still failed. Grin

Does sound fishy though.

Cornsyilk99 · 24/01/2013 18:55

is he sure it wasn't just for practice? if they are all giving the exact same answers it'll be pretty obvious surely. (Not that I know anything about the format of French tests)

cansu · 24/01/2013 18:56

At age 13 they are not doing public exams! She is getting them to learn by heart and practise the model answers. I am us they won't be penalised for adapting the answers. This is kind of what you have to do to do well at GCSE level and it certainly isn't cheating in a class test. I will be doing some questions and answers with my y7 French set. They will write out their answers, practise with a partner, make a helping card to help them learn their answers by heart and then we will see how many answers they can remember when I test them next week. Why do you think this is cheating? Do you want them to be tested on surprise questions? Or on questions they have no idea how to answer? I would suppose that the model answers are the vocab and structures they have been learning in class.

TheNebulousBoojum · 24/01/2013 18:57

Why don't you ask the teacher first?
Then you can complain if it still sounds like cheating to you, or you could find out that your understanding of how oral examinations are run is possibly out of date.
Either is possible.

phantomnamechanger · 24/01/2013 18:57

language orals always have been really well prepared though - scripted if you like - this seems to be the norm - the child still has to "Perform" on the day by remembering the words/phrases and pronouncing them correctly

even for written papers where they know the choice of topics in advance, they get to have their drafts marked, corrected, and can learn them by rote for the exam.

in any number of subjects, pupils are tutored through "model" answers.

I'm surprised you are surprised really!

TheNebulousBoojum · 24/01/2013 18:58

I did my French and German O levels in 1976.
We didn't get prompts either, but I'd still ask.

thebody · 24/01/2013 18:58

Not sure what you could say though. A bit serious to accuse her of cheating. She could lose her job.

If this goes on and she is cheating then she will get caught. But you won't have been involved.

Renniehorta · 24/01/2013 19:00

Unless other teachers are testing without giving out the answers this is standard practice. GCSE controlled assessments orals are done in this way.

It does little to advance real understanding of the language in the long term. However it can push up GCSE grades which is all schools care about.

TheNebulousBoojum · 24/01/2013 19:00

Very MN reaction though, don't bother ascertaining the logic behind the teacher's strategy, assume she's cheating to make herself look good.

phantomnamechanger · 24/01/2013 19:02

we were also taught to lie to make our answers more interesting

eg "have you any brothers or sisters"
"no" versus "yes, I have a sister called clare and a brother called john"
"Any pets" "no"/"yes, i have a dog called snowy"

kickassangel · 24/01/2013 19:03

for languages oral exams at GCSE they are given a range of about 4 topics, and questions for each topic. The students study these, draft their response, get help with it from the teacher then for the exam they have to listen to the question and give the correct answer.

This sounds like the teacher is preparing them for this process, which is standard GCSE technique.

Why don't you email the question to the teacher? She can probably give you an answer.

Original poster
pinkyponk67 · 24/01/2013 19:04

When I did French GCSE oral we did not get any prompts, or even know the topic for the oral exam, before the day. That was 20 years ago and shows how standards have fallen if students are now spoon fed the answers.

OP posts:
Original poster
pinkyponk67 · 24/01/2013 19:07

Xpost with kickassangel. What you have outlined sounds a bit more acceptable. In this case, the teacher simply got the class to copy down a list of sentences off the board, the class took no role in formulating the answers.

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 24/01/2013 19:08

I don't think that you have to accuse her of cheating-just do as I said originally and question it.

phantomnamechanger · 24/01/2013 19:12

I did french O level in 1985 and we knew a range of topics that were likely to come up eg home/family/shopping/holidays/hobbies and we learnt them thoroughly

I still cant see what is wrong with what the teacher is doing - they (pupils)wont have the answers with them in the test, they will have to learn/understand the questions adn be able to give the appropriate answer. That's what learning a language is about! Of course a good teacher should give them examples of the best possible answers - does that mean they'll all get 100% - no!

Renniehorta · 24/01/2013 19:16

In this case, the teacher simply got the class to copy down a list of sentences off the board, the class took no role in formulating the answers.

The class may not be capable of drafting their own answers. There is little point in getting students to learn their own versions which may be wrong.

For those who say that standards have fallen, it should be remembered that MFL are taught to a much wider ability range than in the past.

Glitterspy · 24/01/2013 19:19

What's the point of getting the class to 'copy out' answers for an oral exam anyway? The whole point is to practice their spoken language skill's, n'est-ce pas??! Hmm

Glitterspy · 24/01/2013 19:19

skills not skill's aargh! I could use some work on my written language, lol!

RedHelenB · 24/01/2013 19:20

I think they are less likely to get the higher marks if they have had no input in any of it!! In some ways i think she is doing them a disservice,

Renniehorta · 24/01/2013 19:21

Whilst there is much to criticise in the assessment system that is currently in operation, I cannot see what the teacher has done wrong. She is operating within the demands of this flawed system. She is also forced to get the highest possible levels/grades for her students or ultimately she will lose her job.

As I said before the 'education' of the students comes a long way down the list of what a school is concerned about.

ProphetOfDoom · 24/01/2013 19:24

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
pinkyponk67 · 24/01/2013 19:25

Ps this is a top set class so if they aren't up to the work then the mind boggles!

OP posts:
MrsMelons · 24/01/2013 19:29

We got prompts and I got a B in French, I actually did not know any French that I could use outside only what I had memorised for the exam. I can pretty much count to 10 and say hello and goodbye. I would have thought to get a B you should actually be able to speak a fairly good level of French!

I do think the model answers only assist to get decent grades, to get a A or A* I think there does need to be a better level of understanding.

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