To complain about this teacher

[pinkyponk67]

DS (age 13) told me that his French teacher gave the class all the questions and answers in advance for an upcoming speaking test. She got them to copy out a set of answers which she told them would get the highest level if they used them in the test. DS asked her if this was cheating and she said no but it sounds like it to me. WWYD?

For my gcse I did write a couple of essays for each topic we covered and wrote them out by hand a few times - they weren't looked at by anyone so they were my own work.

In the exams I chose questions that fittws my essays.

I did this for history, English lit, religious studies and French and got A's

I think it helped as I am dyslexic.

If it encourages them to learn the correct use of verbs, je suis, tu etres, for example then I can't see anything wrong with it. Once they have some of it under their belts by rote it will stand them in good stead.

I did some internally set professional quals five or six years ago and was very pleased we were given some revision steers. We had to chose three questions from 9 topics. We had covered 10 topics - it really wasn't rocket science and the GCSE curriculum and its nuances are rather narrower.

THe child in question is 13. THe test will therefore surely be an internal one, not for external exams. In this case, as long as the teacher does the same for every child it can not be 'cheating' as everyon taking the test ahs the same help. I don;t really understand what cheating by the teacher would mean in the context of an internal school assessment anyway. Get a grip, OP (and the rest of you).

I actually think you should complain. I am sure the teacher could do with a laugh.

It's cheating, whether or not it's an external exam. The teacher told the class the answers to learn by heart to get the best level possible in the test.

This is not the same as providing model answers as examples or asking kids to prepare their own answers.

je suis tu es!
Learning verbs by rote is the best method.

She's giving them model answers. I do this (different subject). Sometimes I give them out after they have had a go, sometimes before. Every time I set my learners an essay, I have to write the bloody thing as well. It is part of the AfL (assessment for learning) strategy.

You'd be surprised how many learners, having had sight of a top level answer beforehand, still turn in something that my dog could have done with no warning.

The teacher told the class the answers to learn by heart to get the best level possible in the test.

That is exactly my point. It is all about levels/grades not teaching the language per se.

Cansu, the description you gave up thread of how you approach this with year 7s sounds great and NOTHING like this teacher so I don't know why you think this is acceptable.

Why don't you speak to the teacher. Surely that is the logical thing to do. At the moment you only have one side of the story.

One of my language teachers also spent two years teaching us to lip read. I never knew why till the exam...

Renniehorta yes I am worried that thi is just about the levels. Most of DSs teachers seem obsessed with levels. The school has recently been downgraded from outstanding to good and I am concerned they have become complacent in recent years.

Sounds normal to me.

For my French GCSE we were given a set of qs to prepare and learn model answers to. You get asked other qs too tho, e.g. Set q "do you have any pets" prepared A "yes, I have one dog and two rabbits" next Q "what colour is your dog?" Or something.

I think that's normal. They know most of the questions and prepare answers but there are extra questions they won't have seen. Why don't you check before complaining?

Renniehorta yes I am worried that thi is just about the levels. Most of DSs teachers seem obsessed with levels. The school has recently been downgraded from outstanding to good and I am concerned they have become complacent in recent years.

Right. Now this is the dreadful corrupt and corrupting system that this poor teacher is stuck in. She like all teachers now is running scared of loosing her job. Don't blame her. Blame the system amd tell your MP that you want your DS educated not jusr assessed.

It's not cheating - it's a way of the students learning the vocabulary that is expected to gain a high grade at GCSE (at 13 I don't think your DS is taking his GCSE yet) so it's a chance for him to practise.

If you know a better way for learning languages please let us know as I think most schools teach MFL (modern foreign languages) in this way - it's practise, practise, practise, repeat and repeat some more. In the oral examination they are asked about their school, home, interests and the more they can say the higher grade they get.

I think the teacher is doing the students a favour and teaching well, at least she is turning up for class! (Having trouble with my DS's German teacher at moment as she is never there!)

I am a French teacher and for the current GCSE there is now no oral exam as such but rather 'speaking controlled assessments' whereby pupils are taught a topic and write answers for lots of questions connected to that topic. 2 weeks in advance of the assessment they are given the question (eg my house, my school etc) along with a spider diagram in English showing them they types of things they may be asked about. During the assessment I ask the questions in French whilst pointing to the corresponding English word. They can also bring in brief notes of up to 30 words to help them. If they mess this up they get to sit as many assessments as they can and I pick the best 2 to submit for the GCSE. Dumbing down? Definitely!! But this is what is set by the exam boards so I use this model for all younger pupils when assessing heir speaking although I would expect them to come up with their own answers with my guidance rather than giving them to them. Definitely speak to the teacher. Things aren't always as they were when you were in school!

How is this different to being told to get a good mark in science you need to answer this in your test next week? Of course the children know what will be in the test because they have been studying it for x number of weeks. of course it is different to a public examination. A speaking assessment done in school to test whether the children can learn something by heart is not cheating. The teacher doing the assessment has set the test and set the criteria for marking it. It is entirely down to her how well prepared they should be. I honestly think you will make a massive fool of yourself to complain about this. You may well dislike the test but it isn't cheating and to title your op in this way suggests a massive over reaction and lack of trust in the teacher. I honestly can't think of any other job where the clients think they should second guess every decision made. I was half serious when I said complain because honestly the teacher will explain it all to you nicely as many posters have done about how in the future your ds will need to learn by heart for tests etc but inside will be either fuming or laughing at your sheer nerve and weirdness. Sorry but that's the way I see it.

We weren't given the exact questions and answers but we were thoroughly drilled on bog standard questions and answers well in advance of tests. In home ec the teacher was allowed to read the questions for the written prep part of the practical exam and would emphasise the one we'd practiced to make sure we did the right recipe.

Imho it's far from cheating its a combination of model answers and drilling. We do this all the time at my academy. The being that students learn language in chunks rather than just words and complex grammar rules that they have to employ. It's a much more effective way of increasing accuracy if the students can memorise whole sentences or chunks, as they then recall the whole chunk and can adapt it to their own needs. Young children, especially in English schools where grammar is not taught in their first language, have a very hard time conjuring complex grammatical structures in the spot. My students repeat whole sentences from the boards and when you remove half of the words they can still remember the whole sentence and structure, and adapt it the next lesson with no problems. I don't think she has done anything wrong, and unless she pauses the tape to tell them the answer or let's them read off the paper in the exam it's no different to any oral exam.

the reason re "obsession with levels" has nothing to do with complacency, more so the opposite due to Ofsted, league tables etc. It is also a well known fact that the new regime means that schools are dropping a grade on inspection.

op, many have told you that this is what happens at GCSE, so maybe it would be worthwhile paying attention rather than still arguing the same points

But surely a speaking assessment where all the children have been given the exact answers to each question, and told to copy them into their books and learn them (DS has shown me all this in his book) is just a test of their ability to learn lines. It would be fine if it was the school play, but it is meant to be a test of their French language skills.

Why does it make it ok if this happens at GCSE level as well? Are people really defending rote learning of standard answers? How does this equip you to speak a foreign language in real life ?

Is your DS doing Common Entrance - it's exactly how that exam goes. So don't blame the teacher.

Drove me crazy that my DS did French for 8 years and passed CE at the highest level but couldn't actually properly have a conversation.

She sounds like Michael gove's idea of a perfect teacher! Forget understanding anything, what we need is children who can recite and repeat (preferably wrong) lists.

And I did French gcse 23 years ago and we were given "model" answers then so it's hardly new. As the child then has to a) recognise what they're being asked and then b) remember what to say, I'm not seeing the problem myself.

But anyway, as previously suggested.... you could always ask the teacher.