Foxes

[LatteLady]

Just before I went out to supper tonight, found my next door neighbour in tears coming up her front path... her cat had been savaged by foxes. From the sounds of it, Ralph a sleek cream cat with a ginger tinge will need to be put down as the fox has ripped open his under belly.

This is the third incident in our area over the last week, another lady was walking her dog and had to get between the fox and her dog and then got attacked too.

Am I unreasonable to think that there should be a method of culling this urban menace?

Agent - So can i follow you around with a group of balaclava clad, baseball carrying blokes, To make sure you're not breaking any laws? Only fair after all.

I think that computer fraud and hurting animals are entirely different things, Dizzy. If I saw anyone hurting man or beast - I WOULD do something.

I agree with Inde that there is something sadistic and unpleasant about enjoying a creature's death. It should be a necessary evil, not a game to make you ruddy-cheeked and excited.

So you are trying to say that they chase a fox to death because it's the most humane way of killing them and nothing to do with enjoying it as a sport. But it's me who is being hypocritical.

I didn't say anything about it being enjoyable as a sport. I said i think it's the best way. You don't 'chase it to death'. It won't die from being chased, It will die if the dogs get it.

I agree with this being done where there is a problem with foxes as i think it's preferable to trying to shoot them.

If they aren't causing a problem, then leave them alone.

How is that anything like hammering a random animal thats not causing a problem to death?

I've not got a blood thirst to kill wild animals Dizzy, if I did, you'd be very welcome to follow me round making sure I didn't 'accidentally' hunt any foxes.

If you don't want to encounter any hunt saboteurs, don't fucking hunt.

Punk - But you could be downloading child pornography, that hurts people. You might not be, but you COULD be because you have a PC. So if you're not a hypocrite - Then that gives me the right to come and set up a surveilence team to make sure you're not breaking the law.

You have children. You might be comitting crimes against them - I have no evidence to prove this but you COULD be, so again, i should be able to follow you around to make sure you're not.

Thats the point i'm making - It is wrong for groups of people to stalk other people because they COULD be breaking the law. If you suspect someone is going to break the law, inform the relevant authorities. You do not go playing policeman yourself. If you SEE a crime being comitted and decide to interfere AS IT IS BEING COMITTED then ok, Stop it if you can. But don't stalk people just because they COULD be.

Dizzy

If I had reason to believe that you were in the habit of breaking the law by driving your car home from the pub while tanked up, I would be within my rights to keep an eye on you and if appropriate call the police. In some circumstances I might have a duty to do that.

The police are not sympathetic to drunk drivers so I would probably have no need to video you, but I might feel the need to have witnesses and evidence if I thought you would otherwise get away with your crime.

As you say, I would not have the right to demand entry to your house in order to watch you, even if you had a history of child abuse.

They chase it until it's exhausted and then the dogs kill it. Not really any better is it? I think you know as well DizzyZebra that fox hunting is a sport and even where the foxes are not a problem they will still hunt them.

Agent - So, If i go out drag hunting (I don't hunt foxes BTW) and a group of sabs target me, By your comment there, If they don't want me to get off and cave their skull in, they 'shouldn't fucking follow me' when i'm doing jack all wrong?

Piglet - Yes, That is fair. Absolutely.

But you wouldn't just follow someone because they 'have' a car.

Yet the hunt sabs are allowed to do it because people have horses and are riding across country side following a rag thats been dragged across the ground. Because they 'might' be lying. Despite having no ecidence or reason to suggest they are.

I think the hunt saboteurs encourage drag hunting don't they?

Inde - Yes i do know that. But it doesn't change my opinion on the best way of killing them. Which i think is traditional hunting. I don't hunt because i don't think there is much traditional about it. My points are that anti hunt people such as the hunt sabs are no better and are glorified thugs and it is damned hypocritical to support them if you are against cruelty to animals, Or think that you should have a right to go about your business without being followed.

Inde - They say they do, But they still target drag hunts on the basis that they 'could' be a cover for an actual hunt.

Oldbag - Drag hunting is harming no body - Yet participants are still targetted because they 'could' be lying.

It is not fair to apply that without applying it to absolutely everybody who 'could' be comitting a crime or hurting somebody else.

Inde - Yes i do know that. But it doesn't change my opinion on the best way of killing them. Which i think is traditional hunting. I don't hunt because i don't think there is much traditional about it. My points are that anti hunt people such as the hunt sabs are no better and are glorified thugs and it is damned hypocritical to support them if you are against cruelty to animals, Or think that you should have a right to go about your business without being followed.

Which comes back to my point that you can be against cruelty to foxes and against the saboteurs when they overstep the mark as well. I'm not arguing in favour of the saboteurs. I'm arguing against fox hunting.

Would love to see a cull of urban foxes. They are an absolute pest and utter vermin. Hate them.

'Drag hunting is legal, And if a fox 'crosses your path' and the dogs get it thats fine. This in itself makes the law ridiculous because it's nigh on impossible to prove the intentions of the hunt.'

You've said it yourself Dizzy, you just can't trust hunters to not kill foxes.

They should be spied on, and followed, and people should notice what they get up to, they should publicize it so everyone knows what's going on.

It's creepy knowing some people get a kick out of watching an animal being ripped apart by dogs, whatever bollocks justification they try to palm people off with.

Wanting to hurt animals can be a good indicator of severely disturbed mental health.

Yes, there are many scientific studies to show that many vicious dictators and murderers got their kicks from animal cruelty...including Mussolini and Ivan the Terrible. So I agree with Agent. Often, when they discover they get kicks from it, they move on to human violence.

Empathy and compassion are important. Much more so than silly folk braying across the countryside.

Agent - They should be monitored by the police. Not random members of the public.

You can't trust a lot of people - Doesn't give the public the right to follow them around when they are doing nothing wrong.

As i said, If you have evidence that a hunt is to go out with the intention of hunting an animal in a way that would break the hunting laws, intervene to stop it, And inform the police.

They're soon on to the police when their idiocy gets them a smack in the mouth. Why can't they just act like the rest of the population and report crimes to the police?

...when their idiocy gets them a smack in the mouth...

Pathetic post.

One of the reasons I respect MN is that it doesn't tolerate victim blaming.

They're soon on to the police when their idiocy gets them a smack in the mouth. Why can't they just act like the rest of the population and report crimes to the police?

And with that post you have shown your true colours Dizzy and shown that Punkathearts point about violence to animals going hand in hand with violence to humans is perfectly true.

Linerunner - Umm, hardly victim blaming? They attack people physically and then go complaining when they get one back? I'm sorry but if someone approached me wearing a balaclava, carrying a baseball bat, or brandishing anything to hurt my horse with and i had a whip yes i'd hit them with it, i'm not gonig to stand there while they beat me!

And can i direct you to the comment earlier 'Dont want sabs to get you dont hunt'? So if i don't want to be attacked by hooligans i have to obey the rules set by sme random group of thugs?

Dizzy

I don't keep an eye on people just because they have cars.

When I see a bunch of people staggering out of the pub on a Friday nioght, singing noisily, and wearing "beer is best" yellow jackets, I might pay more attention.

Similarly if I saw you walking into the woods with a bunch of chums carrying hammers and wearing your "Peckham Hedgehog Bashers" scarf.

If you were in fact just bashing fluffy knitted hedgehogs, then you might think it wasn't fair. Especially if you had already explained to me that you were going into a wood where live hedgehogs were to be found, and you only bashed them when, as sometimes happens, they unavoidably ran out under your hammer.

Yes, showing my true colours. Fuck me i'm a terrible person for admitting i'd defend myself against criminals.

Because they know the police chiefs are on the hunt wouldn't be able to do anything?

I know of a few modern examples Punk, but the worst by a long shot is someone who used to know Peter Connellys murderer saying what he used to do to animals when he was younger (don't ask what it was, and don't google it (if it's on google that is) you're really better off not knowing).

Yes, when that compassion switch is in the off position, there has to be implications.