Is it Unreasonable to bite your kids back?

[AnneNonimous]

When they bite you? Or more to the point a baby?

DS is almost ten months and has discovered biting people. He has almost 5 teeth so it's painful, and he favours the boobs or face but will pretty much go for anywhere. It REALLY does hurt. A couple of times it's hurt so much I've screamed out and scared him so he's cried, but it hasn't stopped him. I've also given him teething rings or something else to chew on, told him 'no' in a firm voice everytime but to no avail - he won't stop.

Anyone I mention it to tell me to bite him back - not hard but so he understands what biting is. I can't quite bring myself to do it but I have to admit I've been close when he's really hurt me! Is it what you would do/ have done? I can't quite believe a 10 month old could learn a lesson that way I just don't know?

[MrsReiver]

You had a massive tantrum, I'll have one - show you what it sounds like

Yeah, I've done that one. End of my tether, really bad day, felt like kicking off too so I did. End result was DS stopped screaming and stood staring at me with his wee mouth hanging open looking at me with a WTF face on.

The biting advice - well that was doing the rounds when DS was little nearly 9 years ago, can't believe people are still trotting it out.

[Greensleeves]

Buddha nothing you can say is going to make other posters responsible for your rudeness. You were nasty, you got pulled up on it. Get past it.

[ClippedPhoenix]

Of course you could CatchTheFox but doing it the other way is also valid and having it called "abusive" is rather OTT. Depends on the age and understanding of the child really. Actions do sometimes speak louder than words.

I am talking about a tiny little nip here then an explanation. All of a sudden we have "what if a health visitor saw teeth marks on the child".

Extremes huh

[CarlingBlackMabel]

10m olds have no 'theory of the mind'. They cannot understand that you feel pain just because THEY feel pain under the same circumstances. It is developmentally impossible for them.

I suppose they might learn to stop doing it via aversion therapy, a bit like that man in America who advocated whipping babies with bits of plastic tube to stop them crawling places you had said 'no' to - or for doing ANYTHING you said no to.

But personally I consider it cruel to hurt babies as a way to control their behaviour, when they have no understanding that what they do is wrong.

[Writehand]

I bit my baby & it was a total success. I didn't bite properly, I just firmly, slowly and very carefully closed my teeth over his little nose (that was where he was biting me). He got eyes like saucers, and he never did it again.

You obviously have to do it with extreme care and control, but it works. It's just to illustrate the mechanism: once the baby gets the idea that biting must hurt he stops. You don't actually hurt him, obviously.

[perceptionreality]

Maybe the tantrum one wasn't the best example?

I think we've all had the 'right that's it, I have had it!!' moments .

[polkadotsrock]

nolittlebuddha without being rude perhaps you should just leave this thread. You obviously have nothing more to add to your previous points so there is little point in waiting around when you are only likely to become more offended. Save yourself the hassle.

[ClippedPhoenix]

Oh by the way i wasn't talking about nipping a "baby" back. I'm talking about 18 months onwards here (just to clarify).

[Greensleeves]

Hear Hear Mabel. The most chilling thing about that sort of "training" is that it works. For all the wrong reasons.

Bullying "works" too, if your goal is to get the other child's dinner money off them.

[ComposHat]

My ex aunty did that to me as a baby - bit me proper hard too.

It didn't stop me biting though, although I did grow out of it in my own time.

[Greensleeves]

" I just firmly, slowly and very carefully closed my teeth over his little nose (that was where he was biting me). He got eyes like saucers, and he never did it again."

Wow.

[ClippedPhoenix]

here we go "chilling" oh for god sake, get a grip

[perceptionreality]

Even if there was evidence to show that negative reinforcement in the form of hurting people does work, ie reduce a behaviour, that doesn't mean it's an acceptable thing to do or justify it. And in the long run there are far better, less confusing ways to go about it.

[CatchTheFox]

I agree ClippedPhoenix that the word 'abusive' is a bit much for the scenario you describe.

But perception has hit the nail on the head - the only way you can influence someone's behaviour is by modelling the behaviour you want to see. Actions do indeed speak louder than words - if you don't want your kids to bite, you shouldn't ever bite them.

[ClippedPhoenix]

The use of very emotive words on these sorts of threads are just so out of proportion a unnecessary and they always have the effect of making things go poof. Is that why they are used with such seeming abandon?

[Greensleeves]

I find somebody biting a small child chilling, personally. I doubt the thread will go pouf because I have posted that, particularly as I have no intention of being goaded.

But you carry on trying to make light of biting small children. It's good that people get to see what that kind of argument looks like.

[ClippedPhoenix]

Catch, there is a scenario where a child doesn't understand that they are indeed hurting and showing them it hurts with a little nip does no damage at all, it does stop them due to them then understanding an action.

[CarlingBlackMabel]

So people who use 'emotive language' are responsible for the swearing of others? Describing an act as abuse and explaining why makes somene DESERVE to be sworn at?

Can we remember this next tyime a woman on a relationship thread is being called a cunt by a shouting swearing partner? She probably used the worng kind of language to ask him not to do something. And shouting and swearing is never the responsibility of the person doing it, only the person who was alledgedly annoying.

[ClippedPhoenix]

Goaded?

A nip chilling?

Making light?

Perspective is a good thing

[snowybrrr]

I wonder if you would take a chunk out of your dog, if he bit someone?

[Greensleeves]

Calling it a "nip" doesn't make biting any more acceptable than calling a smack a "tap" does.

The deriding and faces aren't strengthening your argument at all, neither is the belittling of other people's feelings. The fact is, you're the one claiming that it's a good idea to hurt a small child. Nothing you can say about me is going to be as vile as that tbh, so laugh away at my choice of language.

[perceptionreality]

I do agree with Greensleeves. People are saying 'you don't actually hurt them' - well what are you doing then?

Writehand's post above made me very uneasy.

[OliviaPeacein2013Mumsnet]

evening all

[ClippedPhoenix]

Of course you would agree with greensleeves as you have the same perception of things. I agree with writehand's rather more down to earth thinking.

Agreeing to disagree is also good.

[RooneyMara]

I used to have 'friends' who thought this was a good idea too. I told them I didn't agree. It's a cultural myth. ie some sectors of society tend to go by it.

It's bollocks.

Incidentally they were on a register of some sort with social services - she told me they had had a visit one night after leaving their 1yo strapped into his buggy, because he refused to sleep in a bed, and didn't hear him screaming while apparently the neighbours did. What were they supposed to do?

We didn't stay friends for very long...they moved away...such a bloody relief.