to think MN shouldn't support boots co-advertising newborn bottle sets and "follow on" milk

[ICBINEG]

when there's a national campaign on to promote BF?

Presumably this advert passes the letter of the law regarding the non-advertising/non-special offers on formula for new born's but it defies the spirit in every way possible.

AIBU to expect a little more social responsibility from MN?

Jenai, I don't think there are any collected figures about readmissions for dehydration, but there are studies which estimate it. One paper looked at figures from 1998 (quite old now, I know) and says it was 2.5 per 10,000 live births in the UK - yes, probably 1 or 2 times a year for a large hospital with 5000 births.

It might well be higher now, because there is more breastfeeding these days and because babies are discharged after birth sooner.

Whatever....the babies who are readmitted are not breastfeeding well, and this has been missed by the maternity care staff who should be looking out for the signs before readmission is necessary. Breastfeeding that's not going well should be addressed on day 1 or 2, to make sure the baby gets sufficient hydration - usually by hand expressing colostrum if support with positioning and attachment does not fix it.

Jenai I googled the doctor in the BBC article, there are no results published from the latest study but there is an article about a study he did 12 years ago.

adc.bmj.com/content/85/4/318.full

They looked at one region of the UK for the year 1998, and out of 32,015 live births, there were eight readmissions for a type of severe dehydration in exclusively BF infants (or an estimated rate of 22.3 per 10,000 breast-feeding, first-time mothers).

It would be interesting to see the more recent results, given how many more women BF now.

Polkadot - and that is precisely why more support needs to be available for BFing mothers.
Many people these days are trying to BF in isolation, without the support that would have been there historically - mother, aunts, sisters, cousins and friends who had all breastfed and knew how to help a mother get it established successfully.

What is not needed is a misguided HCP or friend rushing up with a bottle in their hand as the solution to all the problems.

Dint you dare! My stitch comes out tomorrow, I should be first

"I would prefer that formula was free on prescription."

So breastfeeders subsidize formula feeders?

Tarka - NO!! to formula being available on prescription! Mothers should decide without having to persuade a GP (not known for their detailed assessment of infant feeding) they actually need it!

Just have it available, minimal branding, consistently low prices, with easy to follow instructions on making it up, if it is powder.

Some FF mothers seem to see advertising and marketing as validating their decision to use it, and removal of advertising and marketing as some sort of invalidation.

Ah x-post with tiktok

It was a rate of 2.5/10,000 for live births in one region of the UK, but the rate goes up to 22.3/10,000 for first-time, breastfeeding mothers.

dreaming are we looking at the same paper? Oddie et all? It's 2.5 per 10,000, not 22.3, isn;t it?

"Some FF mothers seem to see advertising and marketing as validating their decision to use it, and removal of advertising and marketing as some sort of invalidation."

Very interesting observation. So along the lines of, "If it were so bad, they wouldn't be allowed to advertise it?"

Ah x posted again! - I see your figures are for 1st bf mothers!

I would like formula to be manufactured and controlled by a NFP NHS-run organisation. Free on prescription where there is a demonstrated need, and sold at a reasonable price for those who simply choose it.

I think the validation thing is more subtle than that though I have seen the very words you use written here on MN.

I always say that lack of advertising does not mean something is 'bad' which is why I hate comparisons with guns and alcohol!

Lack of advertising can mean 'the effect of advertising has unintended consequences for people we prefer to protect from its effects'.

It can also mean 'no need to advertise this - everyone knows it exists and where to find it' eg safety pins; coat hangers; washing lines.

what advert? I have long since learnt not to notice adverts on web pages, even when they pop up I just close them without registering what they are for.

Formula feeding is a perfectly viable option in a country with drinkable tap water.

No, greensleeves, I don't like that either! You are still asking GPs or HVs to decide which babies 'deserve' to have it, with the risk that distressed mothers have to beg :(

Leave it up to mothers to decide.

How is a "demonstrated need" established though? at what point is it deemed they NEED formula?

I think that one low cost formula is a much better idea (although it will never happen) but you can't get into a system where medics are trying to decide who NEEDS it as that need could fall on many levels. The only time it should be free is if a baby needs a hypoallergenic formula.

tiktok and dreaming - it would be interesting to have more uptodate figures, wouldn't it. I had my one and only 12 years ago; I had plenty of support, I was told about fontanelles and wet nappies, I was really, really well looked after.

It seems that these days postnatal care is sadly lacking, and antenatal education too, if babies are indeed being admitted sp often for malnutriion/dehydration.

I've been told that new mothers don't even get the Birth - Five book any more - is that true? I thought that was a fantastic resource and probably worth its weight in gold.

tiktok I've been on threads with you before and I'm always the one saying "it's only food" ("to which you respond "no it's not!" ) but this time, I'm quite taken aback by some of the arguments against breastfeeding.

Alibi nobody has disagreed with the need for support- a hcp rushing up with a bottle,I wish,I had to beg for formula on my ward(although interestingly it was free flowing once she was on scbu and then moved onto a ward). My midwife suggested just about everything bar the one thing my dd needed which was a bottle of formula at regular intervals alongside her paltry amounts of bm.

Ironic thing is if she hadn't been so formula phobic I might have bf for longer.Ill babies,periods in hospital and severe stress and worry don't exactly lead to successful bfing.

OK tiktok, you don't like it!

I still think it makes sense though, nutritionally and economically. There is a difference between a choice and a medical necessity.

Jenai babies being submitted for dehydration and malnutrition is nothing new.

Greensleeves that's a terrible idea. And not of benefit to babies.

Nobody would have to "beg", because decent quality, cheap formula would be available to everyone at considerably lower prices than it currently is.

Well it's free for those on income support anyway

Yes, actually I didn't think about GPs/hv being gatekeepers if it were prescription only. Yy to mothers choosing and not having to persuade or explain why.

I got soya formula on prescription when ds2 was ill. If I had wanted to feed him soya milk as a lifestyle choice I would have had to buy my own.

Only difference is that I had to buy ridiculously overpriced commercially produced stuff.

Its free if you are on nome support?! I never knew that.....

Income support! Not nome support!