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Original poster

not lack of jobs - lack of ambition!

410 replies

eggs11 · 09/01/2013 13:21

I know very, very little about politics, and if you can help me see this from a different perspective, please do!

A friend is a labour party member, and we recently had a row.I have a good friend (I like her for her personality, not for her life choices) who had a baby at 16 and is on benefits. She has a now 4 year old, starting school in September. She has a huge two bed flat in london (we would love to live where she does! but couldn't afford it), sky tv, the child has a nintendo ds, new clothes all the time, constant days out. I said it makes me angry that me and DP work (we also had a baby young) really really hard. Firstly, I had to go back after 9months, while she gets to sit on her bum until her kid is 5. Secondly, she gets free childcare! She had 2year old funding and 3 year old funding, while the £50 a day to put my 1year old in nursery makes it barely worth me working.

This is the point where we had a row. My labour friend said that it's not her fault that she's on benefits, there's no jobs to make it worth her working. However, if you spoke to my other friend, she has never even considered working. She said to me last week, when her daughter goes to full time school in sept, she has two options: 1) have another baby and get another 5years 6months, which she's planning on doing. 2)Wait until sept, then she has another 6months on job seekers to get pregnant. HOW IS THAT FAIR????? she isn't even looking after her daughter for the past two years, because she's in nursery. Why does this woman get to sit on her bum with free childcare? Why isn't she made to do voluntary work as a fully abled 22 year old with 10 gcse's, or at least made to go with her daughter to nursery and learn parenting skills, which is what I assume they think she lacks if her daughter gets so much funding!

I'm not saying that everyone on benefits/job seekers allowance isn't looking for work. I know how hard it was for DP to find work, it took months of hundreds of applications. I'm saying that while a life on benefits is so cushty and just relies on a baby every five years, no one has the incentive to work! labours answer was increase the working wage. I disagree, she's comfortable, why would she go out to work just for a few extra quid a week?

OP posts:
ssd · 10/01/2013 10:11

expat, dh says it'll only make it harder for her kids, thats why I dont

she waved and laughed at me once when I was going to work, from her bedroom window, as she was opening her curtains grrrr

if she had to make do with less, she'd make sure the kids went without rather than her

the thing is, I dont believe for a second all the cuts will affect her too much, she's too wily to let that happen, she'll come up with another scam if she starts seeing less money coming in, so all the gov's doing with these reforms is harming the working poor and the unemployed who claim legibly to what they should get, but no more

akaemmafrost · 10/01/2013 10:29
Smile
PessaryPam · 10/01/2013 10:50

Yes ssd that is my worry too.

twofingerstoGideon · 10/01/2013 11:32

she waved and laughed at me once when I was going to work, from her bedroom window, as she was opening her curtains grrrr

Really? She was OPENING her curtains? That really doesn't fit well with George Osborne's rhetoric about 'skivers'. Tut tut.

fridgepants · 10/01/2013 11:56

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the user's request.

cloudpuff · 10/01/2013 11:59

Why is that when someone on benefits has something nice people assume its come straight from the benefit money?

There are many children who got ipads/nintendo ds/ ps vista etc in dds class for xmas, and guess what some of those families are on benefits too, I cant afford one for my dd despite hubby working but I also don't give a fuck where the money has come from to pay for them as its none of my business.

They could be reconditioned cheap models, gifts from other family members, from places like brighthouse, bought on a credit card or even saved up for all year by clever budgeting parents. My Daughter got a nintendo ds while we were on benefits and I hope people did not judge me the way some are so hell bent on doing so on this thread, it was actually given to her by my father as he got the xl version.

I have been on benefits myself in the past and it was very very miserable and fucking hard to make the money stretch. Im not bitter or jealous of anyone in that situation tbh.

Mumsyblouse · 10/01/2013 12:31

I don't think it's imaginary to know people who are very nice lovely people, but have calculated, probably correctly, that they are better off on benefits or not working long hours. I know two such mums, in one case the mum was on her own and kept her hours down under the 15 hour max for tax credit reasons (this has now changed I think anyway). She lived in a lovely 4 bed house that was paid for by housing benefit and we freely discussed the fact that she would not be able to pay for these things if not subsidised by the state. The other is an old school friend of mine who I got to know again later in life and I was pretty horrified to find out she'd fallen into the benefit trap (after being left by her partner) and didn't see herself working again, but was worried as her second was nearing school age and her benefits would have been changed once they were 6/7 (can't remember exact age). Rightly or wrongly, I told her I thought she should either train (she could have done a free uni course) or go back to work, which she has now done working 4 days a week.

In both cases, I felt sympathetic as the mums were left on their own with the children, way harder to work than in a two-parent family. However, in both cases, the women concerned were well-educated and felt a real low-level depression about their life circumstance but couldn't see a way out given they didn't have a recent history of working on their CVs.

I am not sure why people keep saying no-one would choose the benefit lifestyle as it is clear people do, but this doesn't mean it's particularly luxurious or enjoyable, what it means is they see it as a viable alternative to being a poorly paid worker single parent worker. Of course my first friend had a nicer house when on housing benefit than if she was living off, say, £20,000 a year, in a cheap part of the UK. These mums (and dads) don't all have the alternative of going out and getting well-paid jobs to afford nice houses in nice areas and so the option to take an ok house and live on very limited means seemed quite a good one, although in the long-run made them feel depressed and powerless. I wouldn't chose it for exactly that reason.

picketywick · 10/01/2013 12:49

I think there is something to be said for mum or dad being with the child until 4 or 5 years of age, then doing a career.

Aftewr ALL RAISING A FAMILY USED TO BE THE MAIN CAREER 50 YEARS AGO. (sorry about the capitals)

Mumsyblouse · 10/01/2013 12:58

Picketywick- I agree, but it's a bit strange to expect the state to fund you staying at home, when everyone else has to pay for it (by having partner/saving in advance from own salary). Staying at home is lovely, but not an option I have had myself with my own children, what with having a job and bills to pay and all!

Also, once you've got into the dependency mind-set, it's hard to break, partly psychologically, partly to fill the gaping CV. My friend believed herself to be deskilled and unemployable after 10 years at home til I arrived and told her to get off her arse and start applying for jobs and that staying home on benefits another 10 years was not a viable career option for a clever successful person like her

EastHollyDaleStreet · 10/01/2013 13:53

My ds got really really pissed off last year as he discovered that some of the lads in his class had expensive phones/ipads/whatever it is nowadays.. and that their parents were unemployed..He started turning into 'tory boy' until I reminded him that, as others have said, they are probably from a catologue/brighthouse/other such place. I'm not model of virtue, but after going through a time when I racked up massive credit card debts (working) I'm terrified of getting into debt again, so until we can afford to pay outright for these litems, which Iconsider luxuries, I'm afraid, he'll have to make do with our ancient computer. Hopefully he 'got' that.

holidaysarenice · 10/01/2013 15:29

In honesty I can see both points here, most ppl know someone struggling on benefits and someone with a cushy life. I didn't know until recently that maintenance isn't counted, so it cud be benefits plus several hundred from a nrp.

However my point is, what will happen to all these mums when they can no longer have kids evert five years, stuck at home, no child related benefits, no work experience?

A low paid job will even be difficult to come by.

EastHollyDaleStreet · 10/01/2013 15:42

Maintenance isn't counted anymore? It was when i was on IS in the 90's - every penny (both of them Grin ) I got from exh was taken off my benefits! Blimey, when did that change??

GregBishopsBottomBitch · 10/01/2013 15:52

My mum had a customer, who got TC and CB and benefits, and had a huge amount of maintenance, i mean hundreds a month, and not a penny affected her benefits.

I have been a lone parent, for 3 years, now my DD is 5, im on JSA, and my word its very tough, been out of work since she was born, even low paid jobs are hard to get, i wish i had gone back to even do voluntary sooner.

I dont know how some people have such a nice life on benefits, it seems the more kids, the nicer life you get.

Ghostsgowoooh · 10/01/2013 17:20

The more kids the more nicer life you get

Really??

I have 4 dc and I'm on benefits, only recently since last July. I don't have a nicer life thanks, I'm broke. I live on seventy pounds a week shopping to feed five of us, my gas and electric meter swallows forty pounds a week, tv licence, I have some debts, I have to run my car too as my son has some special needs and I need the car to get him to school and back.

My life is not cushy, it's bloody hard, maybe I should have stayed with my abusive working ex partner who stole my money and pinned me up against walls whilst I carried his baby?

Oh and eggs I qualified for a free days nursery placed for dd3 aged 2 last year for eight months to give me some respite as at the time my sons violence escalated against me and his sisters. I am not a feckless useless parent although I feel it sometimes when I read these threads but one who struggled against the crap hand my family had been?

I intend to go back to work, I have a degree for ffs. I want to retrain as a teacher but whilst my family still has difficulties I am unable to do this at pressent but will start next year looking into my options

Why do I read these bloody threads

Ghostsgowoooh · 10/01/2013 17:21

Sorry for mistakes, dd jumping all over me

GregBishopsBottomBitch · 10/01/2013 17:23

No offence intended Ghost, thats just based on personal experience, im baffled how they do it.

GregBishopsBottomBitch · 10/01/2013 17:25

Fiddling i suspect in some cases actually.

GregBishopsBottomBitch · 10/01/2013 17:28

Ghost do you get DLA btw.

Ghostsgowoooh · 10/01/2013 18:33

Yes I do, but I use that to run my car, it also gets used to repair any damage ds does to the house. I will be using this months to pay for petrol and replacing two more doors, and polyfilla for walls.

It is NOT used for iPads!

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2013 19:31

Expat, unless she's pretending to be disabled and a carer as well as a widowed mother she is not getting all the benefits.

There is no way unless she is using different identities for her to get any more than the gov says she needs to live on.

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2013 19:32

Sorry ment SSD,

ConstantCraving · 10/01/2013 20:05

Mumsyblouse ''it's a bit strange to expect the state to fund you staying at home, when everyone else has to pay for it (by having partner/saving in advance from own salary). ''

Why is it better to be scrounging off the state than scrounging off a man? Having a partner isn't 'paying for it'.

Do you guys not realise how LITTLE will be saved from the benefits reforms and how MUCH people will suffer.

ssd · 10/01/2013 21:22

yes but you arent reading my posts sock, she might be getting just what she's due as a single mum but sh'e living with her bf who claims unemployment and works for cash on the side

ssd · 10/01/2013 21:27

she is getting benefits as a single mum and living as a couple with a man who works

in other words, fiddling

I cant see any posts here where it says someone claiming benefits honestly is living a cushy life, I can only see posters describing benefit cheats who are fiddling the system and living a cushy life

IneedAsockamnesty · 10/01/2013 21:31

If she does not consider herself to be in a formal partnership or that type of relationship and he is maintaining accommodation elsewhere (his mothers) then she is breaking no laws.

The DWP does not care who you have sex with or if you share a room they are not even allowed to ask you it does not care if you have guests or how long they stay providing they are maintaining accommodation elsewhere,

He will be if he claims as well as earns.but that's him not her.