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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To "grass up" this childminder to ofsted?

133 replies

Bluemonkeyspots · 08/01/2013 11:55

Now i know the general mumsnet opinion is to mind your own business but please hear me out first, then you can tell me to mind my own business if you want ;)

Friend has started using one of her friends for childminding, she has her 2dc during the week, she has also recommended cm friend to another friend and her 1dc will be starting soon.

Cm has 3dc of her own and also watches 2dc full time for another parent.

That will be 8dc overall and 5 off them
are preschoolers.

When I asked about ratios friend said she knew cm did not have a variation for ratios but her and her friend were happy enough to carry on with the arrangment and the other mum who user the cm full time will be none the wiser as she will drop off before the other mindees arrive and pick up after they have gone home.

My problem with this is that i am a mum who uses childcare and i would be really angry if this happened to me, I don't know this mum at all but she is paying the same rate as other parents do but her dc will get much less attention and I'm also not sure that cm's insurance will be valid (not to mention car sears etc)

What would you do?

OP posts:
LesbianMummy1 · 08/01/2013 20:44

Bluemonkeyspots you know the situation in answer to you

point 1 laxness does not make it ok to put children at risk deliberately

Point 2 that is why I was giving other opinion as maybe a MISTAKE and she may be very good at her job just misinformed

You know the situation you decide.

I can not tell from here if it is an accident or intentional I just know how Ofsted can make mistakes that can be critical.

Nothing to hide Ofsted won't find anything but it is still distressing for all involved.

realcoalfire · 08/01/2013 20:49

I would stay out of it.Maybe some of the pre-schoolers are due to start school this term, maybe she is taking on an assistant.
I don't see whty the children are necessarily at risk.Plenty of mothers cope perfectly well with 8 or more DC of their own

Amytheflag · 08/01/2013 20:51

I would report. It's a big thing to trust a stranger with your LO. I feel so sorry for the mum who doesn't know.

KellyElly · 08/01/2013 20:53

Plenty of mothers cope perfectly well with 8 or more DC of their own but she isn't a mother is she. She's a professional accredited to look after children withing rules and guidelines which are there for a reason i.e. So children are not put at risk. If she's doing this she's breaking the law and possibly putting children at risk. Do you advocate this then?

MrsMelons · 08/01/2013 20:54

Not many people have 8 DCs almost the same age, that is very different than having 8 children of varying ages - some of which would have to be older than 4 (in most cases).

Even if they are going to school soon or will employ an assistant - the point is she isn't at this moment so the children are not being cared for as they should be according to the 'rules' and the CM insurance would be invalid if anything happened.

hammyimo · 08/01/2013 20:56

I am puzzled as to why so many people are saying for you to MYOB. Wouldn't they want to know if their childminder was doing this?

Because you would know. If your dc wasn't happy i just think you'd know. I've used nurseries and childminders and schools for years - you just know if your dc is not happy ime.

For all the people saying "it won't do her any harm to be reported to Ofsted if she's done nothing wrong". How would you feel to be suspended at work pending investigation? It's stressful, humiliating, extremely worrying and can damage your reputation for good. I've known people at work (used to work in public sector) who became clinically depressed following investigations following unfounded complaints.

By all means tell the other parent if you think the information really is correct. But it's really up to the users to report her if there's a problem.

I know my cm bends over backwards to accommodate people. So that might mean her mum comes round to take her own dc on occasion, or her dh does a late shift to account for her own 3 on occasion. She went down the road today with what seemed like a huge amount of dc. But her assistant was also there and her dh was also there.

I think you need to be very very sure of your facts before you report people.

fuckadoodlepoopoo · 08/01/2013 20:59

I never understand why so many people say mind your own business when potentially the safety of a child could be at stake. They would probably also be the first to say that someone should have done something if anything were to happen. The rules are there for a reason!

NcNcNcNc · 08/01/2013 21:04

i feel sick for the mother who doesn't know Sad

Report.

KellyElly · 08/01/2013 21:04

For all the people saying "it won't do her any harm to be reported to Ofsted if she's done nothing wrong". How would you feel to be suspended at work pending investigation? It's stressful, humiliating, extremely worrying and can damage your reputation for good. I've known people at work (used to work in public sector) who became clinically depressed following investigations following unfounded complaints. Again a work enviroment relating to adults. I would imagine any stress or humiliation would be nothing compared to what one of the parents would feel if something happened to their child. If you choose to work with children you absolutely must stick within the rules and guidelines. There is also the expectation that you will be on occasion scrutinised more closely than those in other professions and rightly so.

bigbluebus · 08/01/2013 21:06

If I am reading this correctly, then the CM will be breaking the law regarding seatbelts if she carries more under 12s than she has seatbelts in her car - so she cannot carry more than 6 children in her 7 seater car and she will be looking after 8 chldren. I can't imagine she would be taking Secondary school age children 1 mile to school in the car, so am assuming they are all Primary school age She will be in trouble with the Police, never mind OFSTED if she gets caught.

thebody · 08/01/2013 21:08

Hi op. as an ex cm who worked full time and kept to all the rules re Ofsted, insurance, planning, obs, healthy meals, and bloody well PAID TAX it pissed me off no end to be undercut by untrained,( yes cms are trained now at college) and undermining my legitimate business.

It's illegal and wrong and the children could come to harm and parents won't have a leg to stand on here in case if injury or worse.

Report please please....

breatheslowly · 08/01/2013 21:09

My DC might not know to be unhappy about being allowed to travel unrestrained in a car. Safety decisions need to be made by informed adults working within the confines of the law.

thebody · 08/01/2013 21:10

Er and the mother who doesn't know may well do so but turning a blind eye.

It's cheap child care and anyone sensible looks at the ofsted cert and insurances Certs.

nokidshere · 08/01/2013 21:12

nokidshere Are you a child minder? If so your comments are an absolute disgrace. I'm thankful I don't have someone like you looking after my children. Its like a social worker coming on here and saying someone is malicious to report possible child abuse unless they are absolutely sure of the facts and to mind their own business.

Firstly I have already said that the car situation is a criminal offence and a safeguarding issue and needs to be reported. The car situation wasn't mentioned in the original post.

Secondly I pointed out that the ratios are not necessarily wrong - it depends on the ages and times of the children - the OP doesn't give this information.

And Thirdly, apart from the situation with the car no-one has said that any child is being mistreated or abused. Just because some people feel that 8 is too many for them doesn't mean it is for someone else.

LemonBreeland · 08/01/2013 21:14

You know for certain that she is going to be breaking the law regarding car seats. I would report purely for that.

Never mind the care in her house, and whether she might give good care there. Anyone who can willingly take those risks is not a good childcarer.

KellyElly · 08/01/2013 21:22

Nokids your comment If none of the children are yours then its really none of your concern. is what I found the most shocking of all your posts. For someone who works in child care this does not exactly show someone who feels a duty of care to children. You seem a lone voice amongst the child minders on this thread who are saying to report her. I would have imagine as a child minder you would be aware that the rules and guidelines are there for a reason. Noone is talking about abuse but cetainly neglect would be a fitting word apart from the fact she is breaking the law! I would imagine any parents with children in your care would find your attitude utterly at odds with the job you do as well.

rainrainandmorerain · 08/01/2013 21:32

Report. No question.

Car issue is a big deal - but she is also LYING TO THE PARENTS of at least one set of children about their care. About what they are getting when they pay her and the circumstances of the children's care.

That is totally unacceptable. I wouldn't trust her as far as I could throw her.

AlexanderS · 08/01/2013 21:39

"How would you feel to be suspended at work pending investigation?"

hammyimo, read the thread! She will not be suspended at work pending investigation. She will be subject to a unannounced visit by Ofsted, who will then give her a chance to get her shit together if she is doing something naughty.

nokidshere · 08/01/2013 21:41

I already told her to report it immediately as soon as she said that the children would be in the car unrestrained.

The rest of it is neither here nor there without knowing the ages and times of the children involved. At no time was abuse or mistreatment mentioned by the OP.

It would take but a few seconds to clarify the details with her friend - so why not do that and then give ofsted (who frankly are a waste of space) more salient facts to work with?

The fact that you think I am a "lone voice" amongst childminders shows simply that I have my own mind and do not follow the pack thoughts of everyone else. Had the OP said originally that the children were at risk (in the car) then I certainly would have amended my first response as I did afterwards.

Nothing in the original thread threw up any concerns for the children - simply that one of the parents might have been lied to - but the OP has no idea what the arrangements with that parent and minder are or indeed whether she is over her numbers or not.

Someone not in childcare might well see me with hoardes of children and feel that they should report me for being over my numbers - I am often seen out and about with up to 8 or 9 children, occasionally more. In the 13 years that I have been minding I have never once been over my numbers but can see how someone else might think that I had.

So just to clarify - I amended my response to report immediately as soon as the OP said that 8 children would be in a 6 seater car with no restraints or even dedicated seats.

And any of my parents would tell you that I am overprotective of children rather than underprotective and I would be the first to report any abuse or neglect of any kind - even it was a close friend.

itsallinmyhead · 08/01/2013 21:42

Am I missing something? It's not the OPs responsibility to investigate all the facts.

Where there are concerns for the safety of a child/ children she has a duty to report it.

PiccadillyCervix · 08/01/2013 22:08

I'd grass

realcoalfire · 08/01/2013 22:34

You don't know anything though! If I am reading your post correctly, this CM is a friend of a friend .You don't even know her,You are hearing everything second hand ! Does your friend really know what hours each of the 8 children are doing?
Maybe some of the children are mornings only and some are afternoons only.I think reporting someone on hearsay is bad form

hammyimo · 08/01/2013 22:53

I think that's what I've been trying to say realcoal but you put so much better. hearsay.

thebody · 08/01/2013 23:02

But if then she is within her ratios and all insurances are fine then Ofsted will see this and all will be ok.

Ofsted arnt a waste if time to he fair, as a cm I found them generally professional, approachable and fair.

If and I say if an unregistered cm is minding like this she is breaking the law and giving all of us excellent cms a bad name..

JustFabulous · 09/01/2013 07:45

"even if she is breaking the law....." = no excuse to stay quiet.

Maybe the other mum told you because she isn't as cool as she makes out and actually wants things investigated.

Children are not being looked after as well as they deserve and that needs investigation. All saying keep quiet are a disgrace.

It might be annoying to be checked up on but decent CM will accept that the childrens wellfare is much more important than her embarrassment or annoyance.

Maybe if everyone looked out for each other more, and cared, we wouldn't have so much shit in the world.