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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To "grass up" this childminder to ofsted?

133 replies

Bluemonkeyspots · 08/01/2013 11:55

Now i know the general mumsnet opinion is to mind your own business but please hear me out first, then you can tell me to mind my own business if you want ;)

Friend has started using one of her friends for childminding, she has her 2dc during the week, she has also recommended cm friend to another friend and her 1dc will be starting soon.

Cm has 3dc of her own and also watches 2dc full time for another parent.

That will be 8dc overall and 5 off them
are preschoolers.

When I asked about ratios friend said she knew cm did not have a variation for ratios but her and her friend were happy enough to carry on with the arrangment and the other mum who user the cm full time will be none the wiser as she will drop off before the other mindees arrive and pick up after they have gone home.

My problem with this is that i am a mum who uses childcare and i would be really angry if this happened to me, I don't know this mum at all but she is paying the same rate as other parents do but her dc will get much less attention and I'm also not sure that cm's insurance will be valid (not to mention car sears etc)

What would you do?

OP posts:
HopAndSkip · 08/01/2013 13:34

by all means find out who the other mum is and let her know so she can choose if she'd like to go elsewhere. But no need to report her, what if you do and then all the parents have nowhere to send their children and can't work for a few weeks while they sort something else out on no notice, and then have to distrupt the children with a new setting. It's not really fair, and not for you to decide.
Also preschool staff:children ratios in a nursery are 1:8, so they are getting more "attention" than they would at a nursery.

MsVestibule · 08/01/2013 13:35

It's completely irrelevant whether some, all, or none of the parents involved with this arrangement are happy with it. The ratio rules are there for a very good reason and as for driving a car with more children than seats... Shock. Yes, I know 20 years ago this was perfectly acceptable, but it isn't now.

I've never reported anybody for anything since I was about 6, but I would report this and let Ofsted establish the facts.

caramelwaffle · 08/01/2013 13:36

As Cognac pointed out - she may have an assistant.

Or consider this; a childminder that I previously interviewed as a potential childminder also let me know that her husband was a registered childminder (living together): this would impact on the numbers they could have, yes?

landofsoapandglory · 08/01/2013 13:36

I'd report it. It's the safety of the children that is at risk here. I couldn't know what was going on and not do something about it, TBH.

FergusSingsTheBlues · 08/01/2013 13:40

I wouldnt feel at all omfortable handling that many kids on my own. Id secretly call ofsted

MrsMelons · 08/01/2013 13:40

Hop so you would ignore the fact that the children may not be safe in that time just so they aren't without a childminder. Would you say the same if the childminder was doing something hideous to the children because it would be so much worse if the parents had no one to look after their children!

The ratio for 1:8 is for 3+ so judging by the OPs post 1 or 2 are younger than this as they cannot talk so the ratio would be at most 1:4.

Also in a nursery there is never just 1 member of staff to 8 children, there has to be a minimum of 2 adults there so not really comparable. its not about 'attention' its about safety.

You are right though - it is not for the OP to decide it is for Ofsted as they are the governing body and if she is not doing anything wrong then its no big deal!

MrsMelons · 08/01/2013 13:42

caramel it would influence the numbers but only if the husband was there at all times when they had more children of course.

If she had an assistant then the parent wouldn't have said that the childminder knew she was over her ratios (or did I misread that) but was ok with it.

AlexanderS · 08/01/2013 13:49

The childminder won't lose her job! If she is caring for more children than she is allowed to she'll be reprimanded by Ofsted and more closely monitored from now on to make sure she doesn't do it again. Like MsVestibule said, it doesn't matter whether or not the other parent is happy with this situation - this childminder is breaking the law and a child could be hurt as a result. How can she watch so many children effectively? To be honest, I'm Shock your friend is ok with it.

teenagersmother · 08/01/2013 13:51

The ratios for childminders are different than nursery so as Mrs Melons says they are not really comparable.

I was all set to defend the childminder as to be frank. its perfectly possible to manage those numbers and still provide a good experience and care for those children-depending on their ages that is.

However, when I read that she is squashing them in the car I lost any sympathy. That is disgraceful and just plain wrong. Any insurance would be invalid- car and childminders own public liability insurance. My understanding is that to work without valid insurance is illegal anyway.

It's not a situation I would be happy with as a parent using childcare but I don't know if Ofsted can act on 3rd party information. You could call the helpline to check it out. The number is 0300 123 1231.

Jelly15 · 08/01/2013 13:53

She may have a registered assisstant and maybe she has a lot on her books but many off them are parttime. I have five under fives on my books but some only attend two days and a couple attend three days so I never go over my numbers.

If you are 100% sure of her being over then maybe you should report her as the children's sfety is at risk and insurance will be void.

caramelwaffle · 08/01/2013 13:55

MrsMelons Yes, good point, and it was one reason amongst others why I employed someone else.

AlexanderS · 08/01/2013 13:55

Of course Ofsted can act on 3rd party information! If the children were being abused do you think the parents would have to to report it before Ofsted could take action?!

PatButchersEarring · 08/01/2013 13:58

Absolutely report it.

If she is knowingly (or unknowingly) going over her ratios, then she is both thoroughly unprofessional and she is posing a risk to the children. Ratio's are there for a reason. Let Ofsted know your concerns and leave it to them to investigate.

Having recently registered as a CM myself, this sort of thing makes my blood boil! There is little wonder that the profession has such a lousy reputation when there seems to be a small but significant minority of so called childminders who show such a flagrant disregard for regulations and the welfare of their minde

MrsMelons · 08/01/2013 14:01

I had to make a complaint to Ofsted once as a childminder was dropping a child off at my pre-school and she called him vile names in front of the staff. It was not the first time I had heard of her doing it.

When I spoke to the helpline they said they may visit the childminder and that all they would do is ask the childminder if it was true and if they said no then they would just keep the info on file!!!

I was Shock

It may be nothing comes of it as they may ask her when she has the children or whether they all go in the car etc and she may lie or they may turn up and she has too many children there at that time.

teenagersmother · 08/01/2013 14:05

AlexanderS
When I mentioned 3rd party information I meant " my friend says " as opposed to" I have seen/ heard". That's all . Don't be so rude !

Delayingtactic · 08/01/2013 14:06

I would be mighty pissed if I found out my CM was doing this and would be finding a new one sharpish. I would report without a second thought, especially after that tinted windows comment. It's all grand until someone gets hurt.

AlexanderS · 08/01/2013 14:12

MrsMelons, in your case it was more difficult to prove that the childminder had done something wrong (the pre-school staff should have informed the mum). But this case is cut and dried. All Ofsted has to do is turn up unexpectedly and if she has too many children they'll catch her out.

AlexanderS · 08/01/2013 14:14

It doesn't matter where the OP has got her suspicions from teenagersmother. All suspicions concerning the welfare of children should be investigated. I think some very silly things have been said on this thread.

Proudnscary · 08/01/2013 14:20

Mumsnet is notorious for being faux achingly laid back about anything like this and the poster is invariably branded hysterical or nosy.

Bullshit.

There are children that could be at risk - maybe they're not, maybe you don't have the full facts but you are acting genuinely and with concern - so I would report it yes.

TroublesomeEx · 08/01/2013 14:20

I agree AlexanderS

nokidshere · 08/01/2013 14:22

*Nokid, my friend is fine with this arrangement, she feels it's safe regarding the car as it's only a mile each way.

I agree it's up to them who use her service to complain but like I said in the op my concern is the parent who knows nothing about it.

I do know the childminder, i know she is only newly registered. Friend has confirmed that she will be over her ratios but is ok with this.

Childminder had said to friend that the car won't be a problem as like most large cars cm's has tinted windows in the back so nobody can see how many dc are in it.

Friend is fine with all this and that is up to her but it's the parent that knows nothing I was asking about.*

Well in that case you actually know for a fact that she is transporting children without enough seats and restraints and regardless of anything else that should definately be reported.

CinnabarRed · 08/01/2013 14:23

I'd report without a backward glance.

MrsMelons · 08/01/2013 14:25

Alexander sorry should have said we informed the mum and she already had concerns anyway about the Cms behaviour but couldn't put her finger on it. Yes I understand that it would be hard to prove but I was surprised they were so open about what they would do.

We had already spoken to the parent before I called Ofsted but Ofsted told me not to tell the parent due to confidentiality. It was too late as I had already done it and didn't actually agree with them as it was before the child was signed into our care and was in front of all the parents as well so fairly publicly.

tinkletinklestar · 08/01/2013 14:31

Under new eyfs for Childminders we can now approve our own variations, so if we have the space and are able to manage without jeopardise any of the children's interest we can look after more than 3 under 5.

DeWe · 08/01/2013 14:35

People will notice the numbers of children she has getting in/out of the car. Round here, I'm sure it would get reported as I've know Cms be reported for smaller things.

A friend got reported for having 6 children-she didn't, but child she had before preschool came to the car with their mum to pick up something he'd left, and automatically got into the car while they were talking. Someone walked past, saw too many children in the car and reported. As she had no had any other complaints and had been doing it for ages, they came round, checked the car seats in the car, checked her car insurance, and looked at her records showing exactly which child came when. It was traumatic for her waiting, but she accepted that they had to check such things.

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