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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To still be furious and disgusted with my MiL?

58 replies

debka · 06/01/2013 12:31

We were on a (thankfully rare) visit to PiLs this week, when the news that Jim Davidson had been arrested came on the TV.

MiL declared that it was disgusting that people are being 'judged by todays standards' for things that happened 40 years ago, and that 'things were different then'. I asked if rape was ok 40 years ago as well- apparently no, that's different, but everyone expected to be groped back then, you just gave the groper an elbow in the ribs and told him to push off. (good for her that she felt able to do that!)

She then went on to say that all the victims are just nasty- holding a grudge for 40 years and only just talking about it now. I tried to defend them but just got shouted down by her and FiL, and, scarily, DH. I went to bed shortly afterwards, still pretty shocked.

The next day I couldn't look her in the eye, and 4 days later, I'm still angry and shocked at this. But she's my MiL, we ought to have some kind of relationship, what can I do??

OP posts:
CloudsAndTrees · 06/01/2013 13:41

She acknowledged that rape wasn't ok, but I can see where she's coming from.

I don't agree with her, sexual harassment is never ok, but I do think it can easily be turned into something it's not.

I expect most females have experienced what could be classed as sexual harassment nowadays without it becoming a great big deal that needs to be trawled over years and years later when it did no actual damage at the time.

fuckadoodlepoopoo · 06/01/2013 13:43

Has it occurred to you that you are putting all the blame on your mil for views shared and expressed equally by your fil and also your husband?

The automatic response on here is to always blame the mil, but perhaps you should stop for a moment and think about why she gets all the anger and disgust from you.

Generally mils can't do anything right can they but blaming them solely for views which your husband SHARES is ridiculous. I assume he has a brain on his own?

EuroShagmore · 06/01/2013 13:47

I think your MiL has a point about judging people for past acts by today's standards (have the 60s and 70s parenting thread in mind). Should the parents of everyone in their 30s and 40s now be considered neglectful because they let them sit in a car without any restraint or travel in the boot of an estate? It was perfectly acceptable at the time.

I don't know exactly what JD is being investigated for. As far as I know it hasn't been released. Some things not acceptable now (like groping) would have been normal then. Think of Benny Hill! Some things (e.g. rape) were not acceptable then.

The point about the victims being nasty I cannot see. The real problem here is not the fact that you disagree with your MiL but the fact that your husband shouted you down in front of them. But you are making excuses for that (and also focussing on your MiL rather than your FiL and husband).

diddl · 06/01/2013 13:51

"High pressure work environment - on the phone, you need someones attention,"

So?

They really have to be touched all the time to get attention?

Sorry, but his behaviour sounds "jaw droppingly awful"

Still, he was older, everyone adored him, so everyone should have put up with it-even those who didn´t like it!

seeker · 06/01/2013 13:52

So you're angry with your MIL but mot your husband? Hmm

Birdsgottafly · 06/01/2013 13:59

From the POV of not judging people by todays standards, in some ways i agree, unless it involves an actual sexual assault (not a pat on the bum).

If you judged past parenting, then a lot of people could be charged with neglect or abuse.

I, tbh, would be considered racist, i was certainly sexist and homophobic, and discriminatory, until i became educated.

Growing up in the 70's, i wouldn't have questioned DV, or rape in marriage.

Men can be products of their environment.

I don't include the Saville or some of the other incidents in that, but i could understand what your MIL ment, but not your DH.

Birdsgottafly · 06/01/2013 14:01

"High pressure work environment - on the phone, you need someones attention"

The only way to look at wether it was sexual and not just patronising, is if he did it to male employees, also.

diddl · 06/01/2013 14:02

Did anyone say it was sexual?

She didn´t like it-so why shouldn´t he stop?

moisturiser · 06/01/2013 14:07

I'd be really bothered too OP. Doesn't matter that it happened 25 years ago and didn't happen to someone I know, if someone has very bravely come forward and spoken up about abuse, and someone close to me was disparaging about them, and insinuated that they were either making it up or should shut up and put up as it was a long time ago, I'd be upset on behalf of the woman who's been abused. I just would. Because I have been in that situation where I've spoken up and someone has laughed/dismissed me/tried to portray me as too sensitive. And even if I hadn't been through that, I would have empathy with the victim and have the sense to work out that such a response compounds their trauma. It does matter what people like your MIL say behind closed doors (and online). It makes other people feel terrible. How does your MIL know if you've not been abused at some point in your life and chosen not to speak up because people won't believe you. I wince when anyone dismisses such abuse, whether I know the victim or not. Might there be one or two people out of the hundreds who have bravely come forward who are jumping on the bandwagon and making it up? Well, potentially. But most will be entirely genuine and deserve all our support, love and sympathy.

If I were you OP I would be having very strong words about my husband and asking him to read more about the damaging effects of dismissing someone's assault in any way. There probably isn't much you can do about your MIL, some people of that generation just won't change their opinion.

JuliaScurr · 06/01/2013 14:11

Totally get why you're upset. I'd be thinking that's what they'd think of me if I was assaulted. I'd take it personally.

Original poster
debka · 06/01/2013 14:21

Thank you all for your input.

I've been feeling confused about my reaction to this and you've helped put it all in perspective a bit and given me lots to think about, Have to go and do family stuff but I'll be back later.

OP posts:
HollyBerryBush · 06/01/2013 14:22

The only way to look at wether it was sexual and not just patronising, is if he did it to male employees, also

Oh yes, male, female, old, young.

I favoured the old paperclip chuck to get someones attention - ah those were the days Grin or some frantic gesticulating like a demented John McCrirrick Grin with the odd rubber band aimed at someones oh-so-80's perm

You lot wouldnt cope in a dealing room would you? I'm afraid when you are lobbing round millions of pounds of other peoples money, all niceties fly straight out of the window. And I doubt much has changed in the past 10 years.

Ah, I miss being young and juvenile, I really do. Actually we still have elastic band fights where I work and sadly do it Gangnam up the corridors

Diddydollydo · 06/01/2013 14:25

I have to say I would be MUCH more pissed off with DH if I were you.

Catchingmockingbirds · 06/01/2013 14:28

I don't think yabu OP.

I struggle to believe that Jim Davidson's major crime was pinching someone on the bum Hmm.

fuckadoodlepoopoo · 06/01/2013 14:28

Wow! Overreactions to a tap on the wrist! Hmm

Diddydollydo · 06/01/2013 14:30

I also grew up in the 70s and while I would most definitely have questioned rape in a marriage or domestic violence, I do also remember the smutty Benny Hill type stuff that was considered the norm. Was a bit of a shock when I started work at 16 but it was indeed the norm then. Not rape or abuse but what is considered sexual assault now, would easily have come under the 'just a bit of a laugh' blanket when I first started work. Thank God attitudes have changed.

3smellysocks · 06/01/2013 14:32

people like her are the reason that celebs have got away with sexual assault 40 years ago.

Gay40 · 06/01/2013 14:35

I'm with you, OP. I'd be quite angry if that was their attitude to any sort of inappropriate sexual conduct. It would make me think very seriously about leaving my kids with them - you can just see it, "Uncle" So-and-So popped round, years later you find something went on...it would be your kids they were calling nasty and trying to sweep it under the carpet.
I don't believe we have people crawling out of the woodwork in the case of Saville, Davidson and the rest. I think there's been a phenomenal amount of harassment of vulnerable girls and women by these "celebrities" who probably thought INCORRECTLY I MAY SAY that it was a perk of being rich and famous.

(By vulnerable I mean unable to have their concerns heard or taken seriously when they did complain - vulnerable as in disempowered)

Birdsgottafly · 06/01/2013 14:40

I don't agree with it being "people like her", the law was different and the media fed into a certain train of thought.

If you didn't have people around you that thought differently and lived/behaved differently, then you thought that way.

Change had to start at the top.

When i say that i wouldn't have questioned DV, i ment that it certainly wasn't a reason to end a marriage (where i grew up and according to the law) and children's needs were not considered.

SW's would tell a woman that a sexual assault on a child was not a reason to leave.

People, particulary women and the WC were raised to think that those in "higher places" knew better and not to question what went on.

fuckadoodlepoopoo · 06/01/2013 15:00

Bloody hell birds! Really? Sexual assault on a child not a reason to leave?! Fuck.

BoneyBackJefferson · 06/01/2013 15:11

I don't thnk people really understand just how things have changes in the last 40 to 50 yrs.

thegreylady · 06/01/2013 15:12

I am 68 and things were different to some extent when I was a child but 'groping' a child was never acceptable nor was forcing attention on someone who didnt want it.I dont believe what Birds said about sexual assault on a child not being taken seriously .When I was about 8 a man exposed himself to my friend and me when we were walking to school.I told my dad that night and he told the police[a neighbour was a pc].He walked us to school and we saw the man again.I know the police spoke to him and no one thought it was acceptable at all.
What was 'different' was a tendency to brush sexual matters under the carpet and a tendency to look down on the victim if it was adults [over 21].
A man was regarded as 'a bit of a lad' if he was always making up to women whereas women were 'common as muck' if they reciprocated.
Your PILs pov is absolutely disgusting.I respect all those who have had the courage to stand up now.

PessaryPam · 06/01/2013 15:46

If its any consolation OP I had a row with DH at a dinner with friends before Xmas on this subject and walked out on them all. I know it was different mores then, I was there, but it was still wrong.

BoneyBackJefferson · 06/01/2013 15:52

thegreylady

It wasn't right back then but
there was no such thing as rape in marriage
no such thing as date rape
you could hit your child with pretty much what you liked and it was classed as chastisement.
there was the cane in schools.
If your child had even the slightest disablity they would have been shipped off to a special school.
If your child was severly disabled they would be shipped off to a home and forgotten about.
fairly major changes and thats without going near the priesthood.

thegreylady · 06/01/2013 15:57

Boney you are right in everything you say but sexual assault of a child was never ok.