Anyone discouraged kids from university in light of tuition fee rises?

[Officedepot]

In light of uni fees now being £9k per year (so £27k for three year degree) plus living costs students starting uni now would be coming out with debt over £40k

Anyone actively discouraged kids from going to uni on this basis?

I can understand if they are going to a top uni to study medicine or law etc, but AIBU to suggest if they are going to a rubbish uni to do a pointless degree it should be discouraged.

I have lots of friends who did degrees at second rate unis in random subjects and are still earning a tiny amount in their early 30s.......

Niceguy you might want to do the maths on the 'will earn more with than without'.
We have, and while it's far from the only reason for wanting him to go, the reality is in an average career in his industry, set against an average career in the same industry without a degree, he can expect to earn significantly less because of the amount of interest paid.

I don't know enough to know if you can compare which candidate is going to get better opportunities, the one with the degree, or the one with the practical training background?

I think the point is Xenia - your 'average' graduate is not on £65K in their mid twenties nor at any stage in their lifetime.
There are a whole heap of very worthwhile jobs now, for which you need a degree, that will never take the person into the higher tax bracket - think teachers and nurses to start with, but I suspect those sorts of careers are in the majority, not the one your dc seems to have. I'm delighted for you that you have done so well in life, but it seems to give you a narrower view of what is 'usual' than most.

I didn't find uni 'fun' - I got massively depressed and nearly had a breakdown. Half of my friends were necking Prozac. :-/

I'm now 40, divorced, working in the charity sector, no pension and in rental accommodation. Divorce and ten years raising children has shafted me financially.

I'm not encouraging my children to go to uni. :(

I'm waiting to see what mine are like and what they want to be.

I'll be happy if they get a trade, train within employment, work for themselves or go to uni, as long as they are useful to society and happy I will pleased.

I don't think my kids will be able to afford to go to university but tbh, I am not that bothered. My dh didn't go to uni and he has been working in his field since he left school. Also, I don't really get the point of doing a degree if you have £40k of debt as unless you get a job earning something like £100k per year, it is never going to be worthwhile and you will have more debt than you ever earn. I think it is a bit overrated and a lot of universities (especially ex-polys) are going to close down because nobody will see the benefit in paying £27k to have a career in some vague, non-subject that won't get them a job, let alone a job paying enough to pay off the collosal debt.

I'll be leaving the choice up to DS. We have a savings account for him that will help him if he decides too.

I wouldnt be happy though if he chose a fun degree, i would prefer him to have one that will actually be useful in a good work area.

Fees should be high as its not compulsory education and if it were free of cheaper everybody would go and degrees would mean nothing. I disagree with wiping the debt or threasholds though as far too many never use the degree and dont pay for the privildge. Perhaps they could lower the fees a little and then insist on repayments regardless of the persons salary or job status.

Xenia - do you ever post on any topic where you can't (a) boast about your own income (b) brag about how you've made such great choices such as returning to work without maternity leave and (c) bang the drum for women getting high paid jobs as the bee all and end all?
Just curious because your posts are incredibly boring samey, no matter what the topic is.

That's the point though ophelia if you don't earn enough you don't pay off the debt and in the end it's written off.
If I'd done a degree at 18 with the loans now in place I would only have started paying a tiny amount this year as it's the first year I've earned enough.

i swear xenia is katie thingy whATS HER NAME anytime i see her post about how great they are,

That of course might require your mother to pick well paid work and not be a housewife so it will be a lifestyle issue/choice for some women - stay home an saddle my child with debt and present and image that women serve men and clean or go to work and ensure my children can graduate debt free.

You just get more and more rude don't you. Your way is not always the right way and as I've said before, bet I've got more friends than you. Bet my kids like me more than yours do, too, even though they'll be saddled with some debt. Mine have been brought up to think that there isn't anyone to bail them out. What are yours going to do when the bank of Mummy fails?
Oh, god, don't answer that, I really can't be arsed with yet another Xenia diatribe.

Oh, ignore her. If she doesn't get that 65k is out of range for most people (and, if it weren't, what would be the advantage of earning it?! Prices of everything else would just go up), she never will.

@JustGettingOnWithIt

I understand what your point is but bear in mind that your child may not always for whatever reason stay in that industry.

For me it's about hedging your bets. And with that in mind, a decent degree is going to stand you in better stead than no degree. Emphasis on the decent. There's little point to some degrees and I'd agree that you may as well go get a job.

So what degrees do people think are not good?

wrt working, I think xenia has a point, sorry.

Most parents will be in a far better position to support thier children through university financially if they've not spent too long out of the workplace. By too long though I mean years and years, not a year or two here and there on mat leave. It's playing the long game I suppose.

Having said that I do wish she'd accept that not everyone has it in them to earn big money.

Or that everyone wants to.

Many, many people go to university to study for jobs that will never lead to massive amounts of money - nursing, physiotherapy, occupational therapy, midwifery, radiology. Many people do those kinds of degrees because they want to help other people.

One point that I dont think has been mentioned yet, is that a degree can be a ticket out of this country, particularly if this country does get into deeper and deeper financial trouble.
I dont know much of the ins and outs of getting a job abroad anytime with a degree, versus getting a job abroad without one, so someone else may have to elaborate on that point.

Indeed, Vag.

I really hope ds2 and ds3 do go to university as my husband and I did. DH earns way more than he could have without his degree and i had the priviledge of studying a subject i absolutely love. Ds1 didn't do very well at school but after a few years of working in dead end jobs went to college and studied for a Btec in I.T which was definitely worth doing as he now works in a bank alongside graduates.

jenai - the way you said that makes perfect sense (mainly because it didn't hugely resemble what xenia said).

It breaks my heart thinking about it. The course my DD is on is costing 6K per annum (low income family) and if she had been born a year earlier she wouldn't have paid a penny in tuition fees. Also the ones who started last year got an extra £1,200 bursary which has somehow been scrapped for their year.

Adding on the maintenance loan and it becomes a mind blowing total amount over 6 years. Her course is medicine so there is no way around it.

She is hoping to get the fee waiver in cash next year which will give a reasonable amount to be able to study without worrying about money too much but again racking up more debt!

cuillereasoupe - shhh now you've let the secret out!
We have no view on whether our dc should or not go to university, but if they do go, they need to make realistic choices, based on the outcomes they can reasonably expect, and not be surprsied that a a 3rd class degree in media studies from a not-rated institution yields few job offers, and probably is a waste of three years - better fun can be had grape-picking, as someone else mentioned. Regarding the debt - why is this seen as a cost, rather than an investment? (And everyone knows they can go up or down) People are not put off buying a house because of the 'debt' - they see it as an investment in their future security. Good education is the same.

Regarding overseas work - other countries are full of unemploed graduates too, and likely to be more protectionist than the UK which does not give its own graduates priority. Article in tThe Times today about Spanish and Portuguese graduate architects (7 year study...) working in London as baristas (ie, starbucks, not barristers in law courts .

I want my DC to get degrees, which will allow them more oppurtunities probably, a chance to move abroad if they want to, and to be in a job they really want to, which they couldn't do without degrees- a doctor, a dentist, a vet, a scientist, a civil engineer.

DD1 and 2 are both 11, so still young, but they both are interested in learning, they want to do jobs which means they have to get a degree, and the same is for DD3. Although DS is only 5 (and his main ambition is apparently to own an octupus) I want to be safe in the knowledge that if he wants to study at university, that I can help provide, and that there's a possibility of paying back a loan.

I have a degree, and it was necessary to have one, which meant 6yrs of study (medicine) plus further, to become a doctor, and because I love my job, and because if I couldn't afford university, I wouldn't have gotten the job, I really want all my DC to have the same oppurtunities. People from all different financial backgrounds and families are intelligent, and would work hard and be good at so many different careers, but could be prevented from, by pressure from family, by fear of debt, and because they can't afford it from the very, very start, and it shouldn't be considered fair or right.

If they are academic and wish to study medecine, law, accountancy etc. then I would not discourage. If they have a burning desire to go to university, to study say media studies at a former polytecnic, then I would point out lack of graduate jobs and debt they will incur. It has to be their decision, and I would not stop them, but I would still share my thoughts and experiences with them.

Because, like it or not, many of us did not have to pay for our education, and it's an alien and frightening concept for us MrsSalvo.
It's not comparable with buying a home, as, if you don't take on a mortgage, you will still be paying out the same amount (or more in some cases) in rent every month, but have nothing at the end of it. So, where it's a realistic possibility, it's got to make financial sense to take out a mortgage, and you can see what you are getting for your money. With a degree, it's much more of a shot in the dark. Not many people I know in their 40s / 50s, are doing the work they had planned on doing when they were 15 / 16 /17 - people change, the world changes, circumstances change, you discover areas you knew nothing about, you accidently fall into some jobs through other circumstances. It's all a lot more random.
Some of us were brought up to believe that debt is a bad thing, and that anything (houses excepted) you want, you should save up for, or do without, so, to be faced with the idea of a "debt" of thousands of pounds is a horrific idea. I've looked into it quite a bit, and am coming round to the idea of thinking of it as being a graduate 'tax' rather than a loan, and that sits more easily with me, but it's taken a few years and a lot of reading to get here.