To think 'blacking up' isn't necessarily racist?

[Fabuloo]

Apologies in advance for the Daily Mail link....

this article

I think it's more to do with the intention behind it rather than the 'act'. DD is mixed race and sometimes dresses up in a blonde wig and in the past has put my make up on. My DS is blonde and fair and I would have no problem if he wanted to do the same in reverse. I do feel people need to get a grip...

solid gold

I think the first half of your post was good
the second half was very good

imo

*the people of Russia meaning the people who lived in that area before it was actually Russia in the state sense.

Are you directly affected by white people blacking their faces? If not, why get offended on behalf of black people who might be offended because they are black?
I didn't say that no one should be offended by anything, just that it's bloody irritating when people get offended on behalf of other people, who may not even be offended themselves. Iykwim?
It's a bit late for debate, I'm going to bed, my grammar is suffering now.

YANBU at all

If you are going to dress up as someone you need to look like them.

I've painted my face (and neck, hands arms and feet) black before for a production of To Kill A Mockingbird. I went to an all white school. You can't effectively put on a play like that without a racially mixed cast. It wasn't racist, it was just a costume.

I find it bizarre that anybody could find this offensive.

Had anyone "gone berserk" you might have had a point.

But they haven't. They have said that it was thoughtless and in poor taste and probably shouldn't have been done. Not really the same thing at all.

And then bizarrely, people started posting about the Arab slave trade in the 17th century to show that black people have been in positions of power over white people. Presumably saying that blacking up's therefore fine. Very odd.

No FierySmaug and I'm not directly affected by paedophilia either, but that still offends me.

Like I said, I know plenty of black people who are offended by blacking up. So I don't see your point.

And then bizarrely, people started posting about the Arab slave trade in the 17th century to show that black people have been in positions of power over white people. Presumably saying that blacking up's therefore fine. Very odd.

I am not people, I am an individual. I've yet to morph.

I was putting a counter point - this is called discussion and exchange of information - to the statement made 'black people have never had power over white people'

I'm sorry you couldnt follow the logical progression of discussion, i will try and simplify next time

Meanwhile back in reality - a little boy dressed up as his hero - he did not dress up as the whole African/West Indian/Aboriginal races. Some people cant grasp that concept. Fortunately El Hadji Diouf did.

Comparing pedophilia to people blacking up their faces? Not even approaching the same kind of 'offensive' is it?
And anyone, white or black, who is offended by people blacking up their faces in a non-derogatory way, should find a hobby.

I could be wrong, but I think the slave taking you are talking about was controlled by the Ottoman empire- Barbary pirates raided costal areas everywhere within striking distance- including, on occasion, Britain. They also took lots of slaves from Africa. All this predated the European slave trade by a coupl of centuries, and was largely controlled by middle eastern Muslim countries, rather than black Africans. IIRC.

I didn't compare the two. Comparing would be "blacking up is as bad/not as bad/the same as paedophilia". I said that blacking up doesn't affect me and paedophilia doesn't affect me, and yet they both offend me. That is not the same as comparing.

I have plenty of hobbies. They don't stop me finding the time to be offended by things, weirdly enough.

I'll argue the toss - last time I looked, North Africa was infact in ummm Africa:

The Barbary pirates, sometimes called Barbary corsairs or Ottoman corsairs, were pirates and privateers who operated from North Africa, based primarily in the ports of Tunis, Tripoli and Algiers. This area was known in Europe as the Barbary Coast, a term derived from the name of its Berber inhabitants. Their predation extended throughout the Mediterranean, south along West Africa's Atlantic seaboard and even South America,[1] and into the North Atlantic as far north as Iceland, but they primarily operated in the western Mediterranean. In addition to seizing ships, they engaged in Razzias, raids on European coastal towns and villages, mainly in Italy, France, Spain, and Portugal, but also in the British Isles, the Netherlands and as far away as Iceland. The main purpose of their attacks was to capture Christian slaves for the Islamic market in North Africa and the Middle East.[2]

There are many people who are not white who would not see this as the least bit racist but others who refuse to hear this, or see this; as Solid says, patronising.

I personally say - ultra patronising: always is in debates like this.

Holyfool need to check up the word Sanctimonious.

Placing herself on a high pedastal
impossible to disagree or argue with her

it's not clever Holyfool. in fact, any fool can do it

Fiery white people in the 20th century blacked up to mock black people.

Why is it so hard to grap that some black people might be offended?

As I have previously said,nobody has the little boy is racist,rather his parents did not think about their actions.

I think Beyonce is gorgeous. Would I,as white women "black up" to initiate her? No,no I would not.

Seeker: I wasn't referring specifically to this thread.

caramel and again, there are many who would see this as offensive. So what is your point? That as a white person I am not allowed to say anything about black issues? Because that, to me, is far more patronising to black people.

Surely the whole point is that El Hadji Djouf thought it was great. It isn't really anyone else's business.

Just because white people in the 20th century have blacked up specifically to mock black people, it doesn't mean that everyone who blacks up does it to deliberately offend or mock.
I'm English. The English oppressed the Scots over centuries. Would it be highly offensive for me to dress in a kilt and a ginger wig as a Scottish person? Perhaps for a fancy dress party? How about dressing as a welsh person? Didn't we oppress them too?

Fiery As a Scottish person, yes, the ginger wig thing and the idea that we all wear kilts is fucking irritating. I would be offended if an English person wore those things.

it's insensitive and you'd have to be a bit bloody thick not to see it.

Just See I don't know if you did it on purpose, however you have just given a really good example of what I am talking about: a self confessed white woman talking to someone like me, to make up a statement that would seemingly be attributed to me (trying to put words in my mouth) - for me to rebut. There simply is no need for me to rebut your statement.

Also - not everyone who is non-white is black; yet some people who are white seem hellbent on being the mouthpieces of those people also. I find it patronising.

caramel I really don't get what you are saying, could you explain please?

Also, not sure what "self-confessed white woman" is supposed to mean. Why should I "confess" to being white? Seems an odd choice of words. I'm not ashamed of being white.

Simply that you stated you are white. And no, there is no need to be ashamed of that.

I think that probably the reason the boy's parents thought this was OK and didn't consider the possiblity of others seeing racist connotations in it was down to the difference between dressing up as a known individual you admire and dressing up as a stereotype of another race. I think it's fairly likely that other non-Afro-Carribean people have dressed themselves or their DC up as Will.I. Am/Mo Farah/Lenny Henry from time to time and used facepaint as part of the outfit, without having been caught in the act by someone who wanted to start a shitstorm

And as a general rule I think that going beserk at people who have made a well-intentioned blunder or been a bit thoughtless or poorly informed is a really crap way to promote greater tolerance and understanding. It makes the squawkers feel all good and smug and politically correct and righteous, makes the person who did whatever feel silly and humiliated and angry and sad - and quite often makes members of the group allegedly 'insulted' by whatever it was feel patronized and alienated

Agree with every word written! Well argued solidgold I think the comparison with what this lad and his parents did emulating a specific person who happened to be black and with black-face and or getting dressed up as a sterotype of another race is incredibly dimwitted or down right mischief making.

Holyfool - Perhaps you're just more sensitive than me then. I've seen an American dressed as an Englishman, complete with stereotypical tweed jacket, (attempting) a posh accent, wearing a monacle and grasping a cricket bat. I actually thought it was quite funny. Didn't enter my mind to get offended about it.