To Be Annoyed about this (Poss SN) Childs Behaviour

[fantasticfanjo]

Ok so we went to The Panto last night which wasn't a cheap night out with the tickets costing £100 + for 4 of us.

We were sat 4 seats in with a family of 4 occupying the end 4.

The Father of other the family preceded to lift his DS aged about 10/11 over the seats (spare) to the row in front so he could get a better view and was now sat directly in front of my DP.

This child then spent the entire performance jumping up and down on the seat in front,shouting loudly for sweets,flapping arms,banding his head with his shoes which he'd taken off and generally distracting everyone around him. To give the father credit he did repeatedly tell the child to shut up /sit down and threaten him etc.

Although My experience of ASD is quite limited, I'm assuming the boy was on the Autistic spectrum and although the panto is a family performance and I expect to be disturbed by kids needing a wee,rustling sweets etc AIBU to be pissed off with our evening be ruined especially seeing the boy could have been seated on the end of the aisle where he would have disturbed others less ?

yes Dozy.

I think others have missed that too.

You should maybe step away too as this thread will just upset you at a hard time for you too.

It could be that the child has sensory issues and was more comfortable in the row of empty seats

Fanjotime you sound like a wonderful mum
Please don't let judgy people stop you enjoying time with your child. Put the blinkers on.

I probably should but I feel like if I step away people will think the OPs attitude is acceptable and it isn't. It's disablist and horrible

And prob the dad felt obliged to say something to the boy due to all the tutting and frowning from the OP and family. Poor boy.

I actually think that seeing a child clearly in distress being yelled at and threatened rather than comforted/taken out of the stressful situation would have bothered me more than the noise/distraction. I do think YWBU not to say anything at the time.

Holla that wouldn't bother OP because she was giving him credit for threatening his child in her original post as highlighted by Fanjotime

My brother is autistic and I worked with secondary students with PMLD for a while and we (the school staff/my family and I) would at least try to minimise the disruption for the public during any trip out as this often makes the trip more enjoyable for the student.

Given the behaviours in the OP (all of my students displayed the behaviours described or even more disruptive- screaming, slapping, hair pulling and so on) a student would not be allowed to sit by themselves in the theatre/cinema/etc and the staff would work one-on-one at helping the student to act in a more socially acceptable way. Some will be outraged at getting individuals with SEN 'to conform' but, honestly, what is the point of spending hundreds of hours toilet training and teaching a student to walk and speak if they can't go to a shop or the cinema?

I too would be frustrated and disappointed for the boy to be dumped in the row in front and shouted at and threatened for 90 mins, but I don't think there are any winners in this situation, the parents/family are probably struggling, the boy is being shouted at (which will not help any anxiety or sensory overload) and the theatre-goers evening was disrupted.

Blueemerald it really depends on the individual doesn't it? Most autistic people say social skills training is useless.

Yes I think people are missing the huge point that it was the boys behavior that she was annoyed about.

Whilst it might be possible to help some dc with asd to reduce or manage t heir stims or even just to have a more socially acceptable or less visible stim, it certainly isn't the case that this can be achieved with all dc with asd. Dd2 has slightly cute flappy stim that looks ok and is generally viewed as cute and is greeted with patronising smiles from adults and curious looks from other dc. Ds1 who is more severely and classically autistic makes loud repetitive noises, drums repetitively on other objects and attempts to prevent stim,ing or limit this results in self injurious behaviour and major meltdown. It is of course very hard to say on an Internet forum but I think what seems like an obvious solution is never as simple as that with asd. Some people have suggested the child should not have been in his own row. Maybe but then again maybe he likes to have space from others and therefore wanted to sit there for sensory reasons. Maybe he sat there last time he went to a show and as it was free automatically say there. Before I had my dc I would probably have also thought that parents should have managed it better but I know from experience that attempts to manage issues like this when dc are already very on edge can lead to a huge meltdown and distress. It is hard sometimes to plan any trip out into the world. I took ds to McDonald's yesterday and was hugely nervous because it can easily go wrong. I think the op should cut the parents some slack and try and be more understanding. I try very hard not to be noticed by others when we go out, but feel strongly that parents whose childrens behaviour is very challenging shouldn't be forced to remain invisible in society. I also think that those who have been successful at moderating or managing their dc autistic behaviour should be aware that what will work with some dc won't work with all those on the spectrum.

I would say flapping, head smacking, is something that can be left alone. Hair pulling and other aggressive behaviours need changing (because of the safety of others over their own comfort)

Sounds like the problem is the boy's parents, who were allowing their child to be disruptive and not dealing with it very well, either to help their child or to reduce the annoyance to other members of the audience. It's horrid to think of a child being 'threatened' for behaviour that isn't deliberate naughtiness and it's irritating and annoying to be sat behind a child who is distracting you from the performance, especially when the parents have deliberately put the child there, not in the booked seat.

what is the point of spending hundreds of hours toilet training and teaching a student to walk and speak if they can't go to a shop or the cinema?

Umm, do they want to go to the shops or the cinema though?

Quite possibly not, despite both those things being seen as a yardstick for 'normal' behavior!

Not everyone wants to do those things, but I can see a use in teaching toilet training/speaking/walking, but maybe that adult with autism would rather use those skills doing what they want to do not what others think they should.

DozyDuck I'm afraid, in my experience with autistic individuals, I don't agree. I have seen scores of children/teenagers learn to manage their behaviours, learn some social skills and go on to form friendships of varying degrees and be able to complete tasks (such as shopping) that have a deep and meaningful impact on the quality of their lives.

I agree that not all stims can be 'rechannelled' but I don't think shouting and threatening a child with autism is the answer. I've taken students with autism to the cinema who played on a DS (at the back, with the brightness way down) for 70% of the film, I don't care because watching and enjoying the 30% he watched was progress for him.

Ok, maybe not the cinema but if you want to survive in this world you need to eat! Perhaps some of my students would have taken better to internet shopping though :) At school we are trying to move as close to independence as we can, choosing and acquiring food is a really important part of feeling like you have some control over your life and world.

Another great post cansu

It's hard to know where to draw the line in terms of what's acceptable. We went to a children's show on xmas eve and ds1 is 10 but looks 14. He had a screaming flapping fit when we went in (before the performance started) and then when it started he didn't adjust the volume of his voice for the first 10 minutes. However, after that all he did was rustle sweets and slap his chest a bit. Lots of people stared, dh got wound up and may well have looked pretty cross when he was shushing ds. My dd loudly asked to leave because she was embarrassed.
I didn't enjoy the performance as I was on guard , but ds2 was enthralled and dd enjoyed it in the end.Typical outing for us. Feel torn between other kids, ds often doesn't want to sit with us (screaming when we arrived was in part about this) ds1 didn't really enjoy show but we had no one he would stay with and he likes to do what we do.

I agree blueemerald, but I think it is useful to equip someone with autism with the skills they need to do things their way as that is the way they will be doing it once input from school/parents is not forthcoming.

I am amazed at how strong the dad was....
he managed to lift a 10/11 year old over a whole row of people......

I can quite easily lift an 11 year old that height

I agree, AmberLeaf, it has to be as much of a compromise as possible. If it means my student wears headphones and listens to really loud Dido through the whole process without speaking a word to the checkout assistant then so be it, she got the food!

atacareercrossroads really?
over people's heads

Thanks amberleaf. I think define me saying "I didn't enjoy the performance I was on my guard" sums it up really. We very rarely do whole family things and when we do it is very hard. Threads like this can be depressing and upsetting but I think it's important that we keep posting about this stuff as it is so hidden generally in society. I have a tendency to minimise the limitations we have to cope with when talking to friends and colleagues as I don't want to be pitied.

peoples heads that are sat down? so about waist height? Of course I can