To Be Annoyed about this (Poss SN) Childs Behaviour

[fantasticfanjo]

Ok so we went to The Panto last night which wasn't a cheap night out with the tickets costing £100 + for 4 of us.

We were sat 4 seats in with a family of 4 occupying the end 4.

The Father of other the family preceded to lift his DS aged about 10/11 over the seats (spare) to the row in front so he could get a better view and was now sat directly in front of my DP.

This child then spent the entire performance jumping up and down on the seat in front,shouting loudly for sweets,flapping arms,banding his head with his shoes which he'd taken off and generally distracting everyone around him. To give the father credit he did repeatedly tell the child to shut up /sit down and threaten him etc.

Although My experience of ASD is quite limited, I'm assuming the boy was on the Autistic spectrum and although the panto is a family performance and I expect to be disturbed by kids needing a wee,rustling sweets etc AIBU to be pissed off with our evening be ruined especially seeing the boy could have been seated on the end of the aisle where he would have disturbed others less ?

[TheLightPassenger]

Both of you are right, Hecate and Amber, it's difficult to find a balance in a world where a trip to the panto can't be taken for granted by some families due to SN/disability reasons.

[AmberLeaf]

I totally understand Hecate, I really, really do.

But we have to do it for their best interests.

^Indeed your son has a place in society. But it would help children with behaviours that may cause a reaction in strangers if their parents could help to moderate their behaviour in theatres - somewhere where people are trying to pay attention to the stage, not other members of the audience

I can't and won't moderate my sons natural behavior.

I just won't, because there is no need,

My son needs not moderate a thing, it is you and every other member of society unnaffected by autism that needs to moderate your behavior and expectations.

Whatever reactions that happen to strangers is those strangers problem, not my sons.

[pigletmania]

Exactly Amber, pantomime is totally wrong

[FrustratedSycamoreSnowflake]

My son needs not moderate a thing, it is you and every other member of society unnaffected by autism that needs to moderate your behavior and expectations.
Well said amberleaf

Why should our children and their behaviours be moderated and made to fit in with a society that will never accept them for who they are.

[SauvignonBlanche]

What a vile thread, I can see why the OP might have been annoyed by the father's behaviour, it is the child's behavior that is being complained about!

[SauvignonBlanche]

Well said Amber. Why is panto 'wrong, piglet?'

[Pantomimedam]

Because if someone is disturbing everyone else or behaving really strangely in public, they will get a negative reaction. You can, as far as possible, try to help your child moderate their behaviour in some way. Strangers can also try to educate themselves but not everyone will think 'maybe that child has SN and the parent is trying their hardest in a really difficult situation'. And that's sad, because the child will get a negative reaction. But we all have to live in the world as it is, not in an ideal world where everyone is understanding.

[pigletmania]

I hate it when people say they support people with sn, yeh as long as it does not affect them!. Comparing sn behaviour to other annoying people like sweetie openers, those whose mobile phones go off is beyond the pail. These people can help their ANNOYING behaviours, a child with sn cannot!

[pigletmania]

Sauvignon read ambers post that is why

[AmberLeaf]

SauvignonBlanche Piglet menat patomineedams post not panto I think?!

[yousmell]

I feel sorry for everyone actually, the child who struggles to sit through, the dad who wants his child to have a nice time and sit well, and the OP who wants to enjoy the festive show.

[pigletmania]

A pantomime is hardly Les Miserables, it's aimed at kids. Teir will be kids laughing, shouting, calling its meant to be interactive. I think pantomime dame your in the wrong place, this ain't the cinema

[pigletmania]

Yes pantomime dame tats right amber

[SauvignonBlanche]

That would make sense, thanks Amber

[AmberLeaf]

Pantomimedam.

In being autistic, my child is not being 'strange' he is being autistic.

The sooner people accept that the better.

He can't modify his behavior and I will die one day so I cant protect him from 'normal' people forever.

Autistic people behave differently to you.

Get over it.

Accept it.

Let me die without worrying how you normal lot will treat my child please.

[AmberLeaf]

No singling you out Edam, that goes for everyone.

[silverfrog]

I agree with Hecate and Edam on this one.

Yes, in an ideal world everyone would accept all differences, there would be no racist/disablist/ageist/sexist attitudes at all.

and our children would be safe and free to behave exactly as they wished (although, of course, so would everyone, not just people with SN).

however, since we all live in the real world, not some distant Utopia, then there are certain behaviours which are not acceptable in society. to be part of that society, people should try their hardest to meet the rules which that society prescribes.

and so it is down to everyone to moderate their behaviours as much as is possible, and for the families of those who have difficulty moderating their behaviours, to help them out.

I doubt this post would have been made if the family of the boy in question had been seen to be doing their best to mediate the situation. but they seemed not to. and so you can hardly blame the OP for feeling a bit put out. if the family in question had adhered to the general rules of society (which, remember, include sitting in the seats which you bought tickets for), then none of this would have happened anyway.

I do know how difficult it can be taking a child with SN out and about. there have been some interesting viewpoints put forward as to why the father might have moved his ds to the free seats (although I don't accept that 'maybe the boy needed more space around him' as a valid one, tbh - how could the family count on there being free seats?), but to not have done anything at all to try to minimise the disruption for the OP is not fair. even an explanation from the family to the OP's family would have been better than doing nothing.

I don't agree that people with ASD should not have to moderate their behaviours at all. of course, some may not be able to, and that is a different matter, but given that the family were happy to leave their ds in a row by himself, then they clearly had some level of expectation (I would hope) that he knew some of the rules of society, and it would not be too much to ask that they helped their ds with the aspects of being at the show that he was struggling with.

[AmberLeaf]

Parents of children with ASD

If you think your children will modify their behavior when you don't make them, I think you are being very optimistic.

It is for society to change, not our children.

You are saying it as though it is a choice for them? [them being people with ASD]

I find that bizarre.

[yohohoho]

HMMM I think its really wrong to say 'I won't modify his behaviour'

Every parent on the planet has to steer our children in the right direction. To refuse to is to cause issues in the future.

Whilst I feel that society should be more accepting of children with SN, to refuse to try and show the child was is appropriate is not how society works.

If all parents decided they would not show try and show their children the correct behaviours, there would be many more problems.

[cansu]

No you wouldn't expect there to be free seats but if you arrived and there were free seats then a dc who prefers to have more personal space may well choose to sit there. My own ds who has no language at all sometimes insists on all sorts of odd things which we have no control over. he can also get very upset when we dont understand why these things are important to him. Anyway I think some posters seem to think two things that I am not sure are true
1 that the parents should have made more effort to modify or control their dc behaviour
2 that if they couldn't do so then maybe they should have taken him out or tried to apologise or explain their dc condition.

In fact I do try my best to control my dc behaviour because I am very embarrassed if he attracts condemnation or tutting or even just stares in public but I don't think I should have to, nor is it possible the vast majority of the time. I also think that attending a panto is a 'risk' and a challenge but the alternative is to stay in or only attend the very limited special performances for dc with ASD. I also find explaining and trying to apologise for my ds existence to others very wearing and upsetting. I think that we have very different attitudes to disabilities which affect behaviour and social communication compared with our attitudes to some physical disabilities. Autism is hard to come to term with for families and individuals who live with the condition. Why should they have to excuse themselves for having this condition and try and make it more palatable for others?

[cansu]

Yohoho can you explain to me how you explain the rules of the theatre to a non verbal child of 11 who has ASD and severe learning difficulties and no language and sensory difficulties?

[Pixel]

I know zillions of people affected by ASD and 'jumping up and down on a seat' isn't a 'stim' I've ever seen. It might have been but it's not likely
My son jumps up and down on his seat all the time. You can have a look at my wrecked sofa if you want!

[HecateQueenofWitches]

Society's never going to change. People are getting WORSE not better. You only have to look how this governent is treating the vulnerable. Its not getting better. People are getting more awful about others getting help, support, cash. I wish I could see this future you see where society accepts us all but I just don't think it will ever happen. When times are tough people always have and always will turn on the vulnerable. Resent, begrudge, deny... I don't see that ever changing and it terrifies me

[yohohoho]

Yohoho can you explain to me how you explain the rules of the theatre to a non verbal child of 11 who has ASD and severe learning difficulties and no language and sensory difficulties?

I can't. But thats not what I said. I was referring to ambers post that said she refuses to try.

Its an extremely difficult situation. Because on one side you have children with SN (including my nephew) who have the right to do things we all do, on the other side you have people who have paid to see something and are not getting enjoyment out of it. And thats not fair either.

My nephew finds the cinema difficult but does enjoy it. We go to early morning showings mid week. So he can enjoy it and stim without it effecting others experience.

I have aspergers. Some times its appropriate for me to modify my behavior, sometimes it appropriate for others to do so.

[manicinsomniac]

cansu - I agree that anybody with any condition should never have to excuse or explain themselves to anybody else.

but I'm not sure I can agree that neither your 1. nor your 2. should have happened when the result of nothing being done was that one person was happy (the child) but many other people around the child were unable to enjoy the show and therefore wasted a lot of money.

I hope that comment isn't offensive, I'm just trying to work out what would have the best thing to do in order to benefit the greatest number of people. Plenty of parents of autistic children earlier in the thread said it wouldn't be okay and they would stop or remove the child at once. But recent posts seem to highlight that the issue is much more sensitive that it appeared initially.