To hope it doesn't happen for my sister in law just yet...

[pamplem0usse]

So my in laws are trying for a baby. they are also planning on going to a wedding next Christmas the other side of the world. They have extracted an offer from my mil to nanny for them if they have a baby by then.
I'm very cross that theyre prepared to take my dc much loved granny away from them at this time of year (they'll be 3 and 1).

MASSIVE backstory: my in laws have been trying for a baby without success for a little over two years. DH and I have tried desperately hard to be supportive (e.g. over the 'announcement' of the pregnancy of our 3mo). In return we get a constant barrage of unwanted parenting advice and open hostility. I know - but can never understand - it must be awful for her. But there is no excuse for:

1. Suggesting my bil takes home a long forgotten toy from my pil that my 2 yo loves 'if its his'
2. Ignores my children
3. Sent a frankly vile email to me last may having refused to see me because i was pregnanct. among my crimes: not asking her before getting pregnant; suggesting we go out for a drink to talk - apparently my lack of alcohol consumption wold have been rubbing it in that i was pregnant and she was not.
4. Sent vile email to mil suggesting if she wants a continuing relationship with her she needs to stop her childcare of my dd for two days a week while i worked.
5. Ignored my birthday. not even a text. Six weeks later we left mil at family gathering as didn't want a confrontation in front of extended family as sil

I can personally attest that infertility can turn a person into the nastiest, selfish, bitterest monster of all. I was that person. It is so awful to see that you're being consumed by this bile, but feeling helpless in its face.

Yes the SIL is being unreasonable. I'd bet on many levels she realises this. Her extreme behaviour would really concern me. Was she always like it?

I'm going to put your thread title and opening paragraph to one side becuase it sounds like youre sleep deprived and venting, which under the circumstances I can sympathise with.

I can't tell how often you see your SIL. If it is often - perhaps you need to minimise contact for a little while. I think one poster above has said something like "why avoid children if you like them enough to want them" - in the booklet they give you in IVF clinics it actually says that you should give yourself permission to avoid baby focused activities.

It does sound as though the SIL is behaving badly; she is saying the things that infertile people think - however almost everyone who is infertile has the sense to not inflict a whole bunch of bitterness on people who are lucky enough to have children.

When we were having trouble conceiving, it seemed like everyone else was having babies and they all seemed to using the names I had set aside on my secret baby name list. This enraged me - but I did have the sense not to share that with the world or people would have thought I was batshit.

I do think you WBU about Christmas - but you've already said so. So why not cut the time you spend with her a bit. She can't / won't control herself and if you do say something like "when you conceive, will you still be horrid" she will always think that you are rubbing her nose in her infertility.

Sorry but you sound pretty unreasonable to me.

Ok so it's not unreasonable to be upset by some of your in-laws' behaviour, but to actually wish that they don't have a child before Christmas when they so desparately want one seems utterly selfish.

Also has it not occurred to you that your children's granny will be the new baby's granny as well (she is not your children's exclusive possession) and also does granny not have the right to decide for herself how she wants to spend her time?!

Also the £4 mug comment is petty - DH and I earn over £100k too but we don't buy expensive gifts as we have a massive mortgage and various other financial commitments so we don't actually have much 'spare' cash and we also have a large family and friendship group so can't afford expensive gifts for everyone. Also maybe they are saving money in case they do need fertility treatment.

But whereyouleftit why can't the OP deal with her SIL's nastiness without making reference to her conceiving? SIL sounds a nightmare and whether she's like that because she's TTC or she's just an unpleasant person i don't suppose any of us on here know and I agree that no one should accept that kind of behaviour from anyone, but it just seems so horrible to almost mock the fact that she hasn't conceived. I don't know, I don't suffer fools gladly but I think that's a step too far.

Another one who agrees with whereyouleftit.

I too have been the one with children tiptoeing around someone who hasn't. It totally affected my pregnancy and bonding (or rather lack of) with my new baby. And for those of you thinking at least you had a baby, it's not as simple as that.

Yes it's terrible that the ops sil hasn't been able to conceive, but this is not the ops fault. The sil has been vile, rude and thoughtless in her comments and she does need pulling up on it.

Op, stop trying to please her, you never will, but pull her up on her comments. There's no need to be rude to her but tell her that you won't stand for er comments any more.

Sorry I think you are being VVVV unreasonable. Its very very difficult when you are struggling to conceive to see others pregnant.

Your SIL has been trying to get pregnant for 2 years and you hope it doesn't happen for them just so that your 1 and 3 year old spend Christmas with their grandparents .

Some of her resentful stuff is truly awful though - even more so as its her MIL not her mum. So she is being U as well. Fair enough to ignore birthday (your BIL is as much to blame for this) but vile to say she won't speak to MIL unless she stops caring for your DD.

You may be right Megatron - I had not considered that it might be seen as mocking, but instead conveyed that the OP was giving SIL the benefit of the doubt that her behaviour was due to TTC-desolation rather than ingrained nastiness whilst also making clear she was being horrible and she was to stop it. But you are right, it could be perceived as mocking.

YABU to hope she does not get pregnant and it does seem a little childish that you say your children will not get to see their granny at xmas if she is being nanny for your in laws. Although it does seem like you SIL has got a few issues of her own and some of the things she has done have been wrong but being unable to conceive can make people very bitter. She probably sees that it has been easy for you to get pregnant and is jealous so try to have some sympathy

I agree with others who think you secretly don't want SIL to have a baby as it would encroach on your perfect world

yabu and horrible

she has as much right to granny being there at Xmas as you do, its not all about you all the time

actually its the granny I feel sorry for, having two DIL like you two, sheesh, poor woman stuck in the middle of it all, doing free childcare for one whilst being moaned at by the other

she probably wants to go to the wedding on a one way ticket to get peace from you both

Your SIL is clearly bitter and resentful and behaved in a not very nice way, but as someone that took three years each time to get pregnant and had IVF, I know just how she feels.

To not want her to get pregnant just so it suits your family is very unreasonable. Try, at least, to imagine the pain of longing for a child when you see others around you becoming parents. It is so hard. I don't excuse her behaviour, but I suggest you rise above the horrid things she has done and just try to be supportive. You say you have tried to support but hoping she doesn't get pregnant is really mean.

Fine to miss MIL at Christmas, but get a grip! They aren't even pregnant yet and you're already competing with them for access to gps. Totally unreasonable to wish continued infertility on them, even if only a few months.

Also time to wise up and realise that you will have to share granny time. For instance, it would be unreasonable to expect your MIL to continue to do childcare 2 days a week unless she is totally happy to do another 2 days for BIL. More likely your dc will have to go to nursery to give granny a chance to childcare for the younger child.

Perhaps SIL is over sensitive to you having got pregnant first and having snapped up all the free childcare to boot! Try being a little more sympathetic. Even if SIL is a cowbag

I'm also with WhereYouLeftIt.
I do think the OP is unreasonable about the GPs not being there for Christmas next year (maybe). Just have a special time with your DCs yourself. They'll get over it.
But the SiL is beyond vile - who gives a present saying that you won't be able to use it anyway? I'd have handed it straight back!
You have to stop pandering to this awful behaviour. I can't actually believe it's just down to conception problems. Was she ever a nice person?
Can you just imagine how PFB she is going to be when she does have a baby? No-one will be able to breathe near it.
I had a family member who struggled to conceive, and although she was sometimes distressed around pregnant women (understandably), she was never vile to anyone, ever.

I don't think OP is being at all unreasonable. The SIL sounds like a bitch. Whether that is for understandable reasons or not is irrelevant, she is still being a bitch.

It is selfish to want to take a grandparent away from the other side of the family who very much want her company at Christmas just so you can go to a wedding. It is selfish to want to take a toy away from small children for absolutely no reason. It is very selfish to tell a mother that she can't have a good relationship with her adult son because she is a good granny. It is ridiculous to tell someone that they should ask permission before having a child.

Having problems with infertility does not make it ok to do those things, I don't even think it makes it understandable. It would be understandable that she didn't want to see much of OP or her children, and she is free to do that herself, but inflicting her issues on to other people is not understandable and it is not ok.

Your SIL won't conveniently disappear so you have to suck it up I am afraid, be polite and civil, don't bother arranging/suggesting cozy chats or smooth things over as this will just used against you. your MIL is stuck in the middle But let her continue to do things her way, let SIL demand what ever she wants but be secure in the knowledge that your MIL loves your DC very much and will continue to be a great GP.

If they get pregnant then I think the situation will improve as your SIL will have a new focus, then when the baby arrives she will be v busy. If CHristmas next is different then quite frankly so what? I didn't see my parents this Christmas but I took my baby to see them a few weeks ago instead, we had a lovely family meal and then Christmas was a quiet affair.

Let go of the angst/anger you have toward your SIL and things will improve, your head is full her bad behaviour, just let it wash over you and enjoy your lovely family and PIL (MN is full of examples of PIL nightmares but you love yours).

Op you also seem to be missing the irony in your desire that your sil adapts her behaviour to suit you when your entire complaint rests on an objection to her apparently doing the same.

Whilst I agree fertility issues are not a reason to behave like a bitch, I'm not really seeing the "vile behaviour" which appears to amount to a request that the mil potentially accompany them on a holiday and bring a little over sensitive about a request to go out for a drink.

Re the gift is it possible that your sil purchased it before you became aware of your DC's intolerances and them gave it anyway knowing that you could use it at a later date?

Lucky yet to have two children and lovely mil. Your sil is being difficult but is struggling with awful situation. Cut her some slack.

You should be hoping she does get pg then she will ease off on the parenting advice and the whole situation will be easier.

Yanbu to find her behaviour difficult. Yabu to not want her to haunt a baby just so yours can have granny at Christmas. Unbelievable.

Have a baby. Haunting a baby would clearly be unacceptable

YABVVU OP, but I think you have realised that. Your SIL sounds like a bit of a cow. That might be due to the frustrations of ttc or that might be how she is, but it doesn't excuse your selfishness.

I think you don't want to share your MIL and want her to be doting Granny to your children, and your children only.

All this talk of her 'extracting' offers while your MIL looks after your children while you work (if I read that correctly) and not wanting her to be anywhere else at xmas is just childish.

She sounds pretty self centred but she can only bother you if you let her, my brothers ex was like that for the 7 years they were together, she refused to talk to me at all when I was pregnant and made comments about my weight and how she was skinny because she didn't have kids, tried to tell me how to parent because she read books about it etc, I just shrugged and ignored it.

You both sound as bad as each other. You want to dictate where your MIL can and cant soend christmas despite the fact she is her own person whi already gives up two days a week to provide you with free childcare. You also sound very materalistic over presents and the amount spent which says a lot too.

Your SIL should not be rude despite having problems conceiving but she does have the right to ask her MIL to help on a one off trip, after all you ask for help every single week but its only ok when you do so.

Since when was it selfish to hope to spend Christmas with your extended family?

I think you both sound bloody unreasonable.

I thought from the thread title that you were going to say you were having trouble conceiving and struggling with the idea of them managing it first.

As and when they have kids you will need to share granny.

You could be more understanding of how they feel. It's totally normal to be upset by others' pregnancy if you are struggling.

I find your attitude sad.

It's not that I don't want her to be anywhere else, I just feel a bit sad at the prospect of us all not being together at Christmas. And TBH that includes my BIL and SIL's future child, should it arrive. I've cried buckets over this horrible horrible situation. We TTC for 2 years + for my eldest, we started trying to my DS almost immediately because we didn't know when / if it would be happen. To then be told that (in her words) I'd taken her baby because it was her turn is very very hard. Every week of my pregnancy some comment or other was passed directly or indirectly to us about how cruel I'd been. She suggested that I was deliberately cruel by meeting up to explain about being pregnant and then that I should have text her instead. But if I'd have done that it wouldn't have been right.
It wasn't about the value of the present, it was the fact that despite us supposedly being on good terms I wasn't even wished a happy birthday. My BIL had asked us to try not to be around when they were at a family gathering, we obliged and I was called every name under the sun for not being there to receive this birthday present. I feel incredibly sad that it has come to this. I love my husband and his family very much. But all along I've been reduced to grovelling about how I hadn't intended to upset her (which I hadn't) while it was seemingly OK for her to give me a proverbial slap in the face. And I can't comment on her insistence that my parenting is going to produce rude, spoilt children because my natural response to anyone who makes that sort of statement and without any experience of parenting is 'well wait until you have yours'. My SIL is well aware of my bfed son's allergy and the implications. She has asked directly about it. And before I'd even opened the present I was told I wouldn't be able to use it. It also had a half price sticker left on it but I thought I wouldn't mention that as it would be petty....