that games are an 18 certificate for a reason?

[theluckiest]

Friend on FB has posted a pic of his nephews glued to their xbox. Headsets on, big gamer chairs, not moving for hours. This is actually not the issue but I admit to cracking out the large (super stretchy thanks to Xmas) judgy pants when I saw the conversation under the pic. Kids are 6 and 8. They were playing Call of Duty, Black Ops which is an 18 certificate game. Quite a few replies from other people with witty comments about 'starting them early' and that they will be beating their dad soon enough.

I admit I huffed and tutted. Asked dh what he thinks as he is an occasional gamer and he was horrified as he plays this and it is very graphic. Do people not realise that games have certificates? Or not give a shit as it keeps the kids quiet?

And yes I am prob BU and my judgy pants are straining with the effort but I am a teacher so get judgy about stuff! Last year one of the kids in my class used to include some horrific stuff in his writing about heads exploding, people on fire, shootings. He spent hours playing COD, Grand Theft Auto, etc. with older brothers (he was 7).

Maybe I have finally become an old fuddy duddy stuffed shirt.....I remember watching 18 cert horror movies but am sure I was a young teen then (not 6!!) and games seem far more insidious as you become involved iyswim?

What utter bollocks are you talking about caro

"I'm pg now with a gamer husband, and I don't think I'd let them play the violent stuff together. There's not hard evidence of damage caused (that I know of) but with so many great alternatives out there, why do it?"

Quite. I'm sure I read that in 2011 out of all the games released only about 20 were rated 18. That leaves a huge amount to choose from.

I agree that it varies a lot from game to game. Both me and DH like playing xbox, not all the time or anything, but if a new game comes out we might complete it over a couple of weeks. Some games like Assassin's Creed are rated as 18 but you can opt to turn off the graphic special effects (like blood) and I'd say with this implemented it's more like a 15. Skyrim, also, as mentioned above by inaflap doesn't have a lot of completely gratuitous violence and I would say it probably is fine for a 12 year old. COD, however, is one my BIL plays and I definitely think it's a bit much for a 7 year year old, but might be ok for a 13 year old.

The guidelines are just that, guidance. Individual games vary significantly in how violent and/or graphic they are. I guess parental supervision is pretty important with younger kids on xbox, just as it would be if they are on the net, watching stuff on youtube.

All that being said, I don't think violent video games are the primary cause of awful things like school shootings or anything, but I don't think it's desirable to have a 7 year old who plays COD online against adults (who, by the way, can be wearing headsets and communicating with your child while they are playing which is a bit dodgy) for hours and then is going into school drawing pictures or writing stories about people being blown up...

YANBU.
My dp is a massive gamer and has a variety of warfare games, however he never plays the games when the children are up (it's an unwritten house rule). Although I'll add that despite my ds (4) never playing/ watching these games he still has an overwhelming urge to destroy and kill everything in his path and when playing everything is some form of weapon whether it is a kitchen towel roll or Lego.

I think it just shows how desensitised most of us have become to violence that so many parents here can justify the odd "killing" on a game in front of their five year old, or "draw the line" at realistic gore or blood and think they are making appropriate and well-considered decisions.

I wouldn't argue that gaming leads to violence, because the research so far doesn't support that. However it seems pretty obvious that our society has become insanely conditioned to violence, and that many people including children now thrive on the stimulation of virtual shooting and killing.

My solution to violent games is no console, simple really. I can't control what friends have in their homes but at least I can severely limit the time wasted on such rubbish.

DS has a PS3, he is allowed games suitable for his age group and I check out reviews and PEGI's of any games he asks for to check their suitability. He mostly plays with hangs out with other children whose parents have similar values to my own. If he goes to a friend's house who is allowed such games, I explain to him that this is a household in which violence -in any form - is not allowed.
If you would be horrified at your child behaving a certain way, why allow them to playact it - in any format?

We don't have them, I hate violence and swearing, especially misogynistic sexual swearing, virtual or otherwise. I agree they are 18 for a reason, they are unsuitable for children just like 18 films or alcohol.

These games can swallow up a huge amount of childhood. We have limits on screen time generally, which helps our dc to balance how they spend time. They do have consoles, but they play non violent age appropriate games.

Nearly all ds1s friends (12-13 y olds)have CoD, WoW, and ds does play them at friends' houses. Ds went to a party recently where they played for six hours solid. I just find it depressing that people want to spend time pretending to kill people. Ds has never asked for any of these games, but if he did the answer would be no.

Asinine I'd be horrified if my 12yo plays WoW. The game itself isn't violent or overly sexualised. But it's a MMO and Internet brings out the best of sexists behaviours. Rape, whore, bitch and other debasing comments on females are very common occurrence on chat.

Despite how I probably appear here I do believe in parental choice to some degree. Age ratings can never be anything but a guide, so I would allow a year, occasionally two, of leeway if I felt a particular game was suitable for my child's temperament and development. And that would probably mean they wouldn't get to play most games 'til they were of age, but it wouldn't be a blanket ban either. People don't magically mature overnight just because they've turned 12/16/18 and I'm not naive enough to think they do.

Chat made by men who are someone's sons too - this is what some of us will spawn.

Sorry not read all the posts but this may not have been mentioned.

We are a gaming family. My DC's had nintenos from a very young age. The are now early 20's and older teens. We have Xbox, WII, Cube and N64 still going strong I still refuse to have games like Grand Theft Auto in the house and I didn't allow first person shooters until the DC's more or less reached the age ratings. Grand theft auto is a disgusting game. How anybody allows a child to play a game where you can, for example, pissing on corpses, visit strip clubs and get lap dances and 'kill' innocent passerby's is beyond me. There are so many brilliant games about that I don't see the 'need' for DC's to be playing GTA, COD etc when they are little.
It is not just the violence/swearing/sex or whatever it is also the style of gameplay that is not suitable for younger play. The games are designed for older teens obviously they are too addictive for younger DC's who lack the maturity to deal with the intense gameplay.

I think parents who can't say no to their kids are not doing them a favour in the long run.

I was looking at games in Blockbuster before Christmas and asked the sales assistant if it was worth getting DS (10 last week) FIFA 13, as I wasn't going to be getting the Xbox gold thing and letting him play online. I was told that football games are too childish for most 9/10 year olds and he would prob only be interested in COD etc! Not likely!

DS's best friend is allowed to play those types of games (as are all his other friends it seems), but friends Mum asked DS if he was allowed & he said no (love him).

A family member got DS Harry Potter which is a 12, which I didn't get too worked up about as he has seen all the films. But luckily as we have never had a console before, he is not good enough to be able to play it properly yet anyway

Stuntgirl I don't believe you suddenly mature overnight. So yes, I'd allow for a bit of leeway. Like a 16yo might be able to handle a R18 game if he or she is mature. But the thought of 6-8yo playing COD or GTA (like in the OP) is just plain wrong.

i haven't read all of this sorry just the opening post and i have 4 ds's 16, 15, 13, and 5, my youngest is good at gears of war and halo, learning from watching his brothers play, but with me thinking its not appropriate games for him i brought him mini ninja's which is age 7 and sonic racing hoping to get him off gears and halo.
as for the effect it has will of had on him i'm yet to see the older ds's didn't play games like that until they were teenagers , but ds1 used to right some very graphic and horrific stories when younger and draw pictures. he had a very vivid imagination, but that's as far as it went he is and has always been a very thoughtful and sensitive boy.

How can that be okay for a five year old? I'm sure it's hard to protect young ones from what the older ones are doing but that is negligent, IMO.

I think foxy's post, if genuine, serves as a warning to us all.

I have a friend who's partner frequently plays these sorts of games in front of his 6, 4 and 2 year old.
I was horrified when I realised, I think they're completely inappropriate. They're so violent. I can't understand why anyone would think war games are appropriate for children that young.

the point i was trying to make is that ds1 didn't have access to these games when younger and he out off all off my ds's wrote and drew some pretty disturbing stuff, if he didn't have the temperament and nature he has i would have been quite worried. so i don't think the games can be blamed for that.
as for ds4 who is 5 i do know these games are not good for him we do limit his time on the xbox but im not here all the time i work and ds2 and ds3 arn't so careful what the let there younger brother see and do, so yes ds4 who is 5 has become quite good at these games not to a level to play on line but in that he figures things out, how to do things on the campaigns and i have got him new games to try and change his interests when on the xbox.

carocaro Except, you know, a lot of gamers ARE girls/women/mothers...

Yanbu. I was shocked when I saw a 5 yr old playing these games. Not suitable at all. I would never let my ds' play an 18. It's called age appropriate for a reason.

I wasn't saying you did terror?

When I was in Sainsburys yesterday looking at Wii games, they had a sign up saying from 1 January people would have to show ID to buy video games.... Obviously meaning that you have to be over 18 to buy an 18 game...

DH makes video games. DS1 (12) is allowed to play Portal and Halo. He is not allowed to play online. Thankfully, COD and the like are never brought up, and we've always said they won't get over the threshold until he can buy them himself.

HappyNewSkyebluesapphire: I'm not sure this will make much of a difference as most of the under-age gamers seem to have been bought these games by their woefully misguided parents.

We're not super-strict about the age ratings, like films we take them on a case by case basis, but this only applies up to '12' cert films and 12+ games, at least for now. DS got the new Zelda game for the Wii last Christmas when he was 8, even though it's a 12+, but he hasn't been able to play it often because he's not allowed to play it when his, younger by three years, sister is around.

They are both hooked on Minecraft, and also love some motorcycle thing with courses you can build yourself, some very unlikely ones. DS is obsessed with Halo: has the action figures, the mega blocks and the encyclopedia but, as far as the game goes, DH will only let him drive around on Forge and play the shooting aliens bit where you instantly respawn. He has agreed to assess when DS is 13 or 14 so may let him play it properly before he reaches 16, but he hasn't promised anything. :)

FWIW, DH is the one in this house with the consoles, and it has always been the rule that he doesn't play the unsuitable games unless the kids are in bed or out of the house. We both think that letting them watch someone else play those games is just as bad as letting them play; we wouldn't let them watch an 18 certificate film, so why would we let them watch an 18 rated game.

Oh, forgot to say DS loves Portal. He even spent some of his savings on a replica gun a few months ago.