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Original poster

Ethical goat gifts for Christmas

159 replies

redwellybluewelly · 26/12/2012 22:29

I've only been on MN a year or so therefore shall offer apologies in advance if this is a well worn topic

DH, DD, and I were given the gift of a herd of goats in africa this christmas by a relative. Part of me thinks this is a great idea, part of me thinks this is someone making the point that they think we are materialistic and have everything we need and the money should be given to the more deserving.

This is mostly driven by the fact the giver of the goats gave the rest of the extended family ethical gifts (as we do too when the recipient likes them) of soap, food and pretty things. We got goats.

The goat giver has in the past made it clear that they think we live a wasteful life. We live within our means but we do recycle and try hard to live a low impact life

OP posts:
flow4 · 26/12/2012 23:33

Grin Mutt

Aman1975 · 26/12/2012 23:42

Maybe some miserable, selfish people could do with less of the buying twice as much food as you need over christmas, over priced smellies gift sets, socks no one needs, crap from gadget shops no one wants and yet another scarf and glove set and thank their lucky stars that they live in one of the richest countries on earth and are in a position to moan that cousin so and so didn't spend his ££s on ME but gave it to help people with next to nothing.

7 or 8 years ago we only bought charity presents. We looked through the catalogue and bought people gifts relevent to their jobs or interests and they were well recieved.

The ever increasing comertialisation of Christmas really fucks me off. (incase you hadn't guessed

Mutt · 26/12/2012 23:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
redwellybluewelly · 26/12/2012 23:48

Yup.

OP posts:
Aman1975 · 26/12/2012 23:48

I haven't missed the point , I just don't agree with it.

Floralnomad · 26/12/2012 23:49

You have missed the point , the point being if you want to donate to a charity on my behalf ask me which charity I wish to donate to ,don't just buy me a goat or a toilet in Africa.

jessjessjess · 26/12/2012 23:51

"A really generous person would ask others to get them charity gifts, not get them for others."

"But someone giving a donation to a charity of their choosing in place of an actual present without being asked to do so, is not a gift to me. It is all about that person and their chosen cause. I do not figure in the equation at all."

All of this.

Personally I would want someone making a donation in my name to give it to Samaritans, Victim Support (which many don't realise is a charity) or one of several local charities that are important to me. I'm sure the goat or whatever is going to help but I personally want to support these other causes.

jessjessjess · 26/12/2012 23:54

Aman you have utterly missed the point.

I would want to give to Samaritans without whom I would not currently be alive, or Victim Support who helped me when my brother was the victim of a horrible crime, or a local special baby unit, or a local DV shelter. I don't mind being given a goat because I'm materialistic but because I have issues with Oxfam and would prefer a donation in my name goes to a charity I actually support.

LadyHarrietdeSpook · 26/12/2012 23:59

Yep, MIL tried this out on us for a couple of years running until we gave her one back. Very quiet she was during the dinner and funnily enough next year we were back onto the 'real' gifts. Have posted about this before...

Lucy Mangan's article in the STylist this past week made me cry and I think it's a great idea, really essential, to think about charity contributions at Christmas. DD1 wanted to go for a Children's Charity and we did it.

BUT it was soooo sanctimonious,MIL's card saying: "I'm sure you'll all be much happier knowing your present went to someone in Africa."

I was sitting there thinking: "Most months it feels like ALL of the money coming through our bank accts is destined for soemone else's pockets and a dinner voucher for pizza express/night of free babysitting would have been great."

I know it's vulgar but I couldn't help it.

Aman1975 · 26/12/2012 23:59

The point of a christmas present is for it to be a suprise. I also knew that all the people involved would support the charity that was involved. If someone bought a present that was for a charity the recipient has no unterest in then that is a badly thought out preseent. Charity presents aren't bad presents because they are for charity.

DumSpiroSperHoHoHo · 27/12/2012 00:04

I'd be hacked off tbh.

A relative did this for everyone in the family a while back.

Personally - and at the risk of getting flamed, I don't think it's a bad idea if the recipient has either asked for this on the first place, or been given a choice of charity for the donation on their behalf to go.

If BIL chooses to support Oxfam by purchasing farm animals for developing countries, I think that's great. For me the gift would have meant more (which is surely the point of a gift in the first place?) had it been a donation to Barnardos or The Eve Appeal.

Floralnomad · 27/12/2012 00:05

That's fine for you and your recipients then but as the OP said she would rather give to a local charity ,and the local special care baby unit didn't need a herd of goats.

Original poster
redwellybluewelly · 27/12/2012 00:07

There is also the point that was made above about the practicalities of many of these gifts. Sometimes unsustainable and also sometimes damaging to the local ecology (I.e. there's a good reason all the stock died off previously) and not always what's needed. Now education I think is often better organised.

But also I think we have some pretty good and very worthwhile charities in the UK which need our support now more than ever.

And as someone also said did the goat giver donate her gifts? No. When she doesn't want something she sells it, always.

OP posts:
ViperInTheManger · 27/12/2012 00:09

I agree that these charity gifts are all about the giver unless they are sure the recipient a) would be happy to give that gift and b) would approve of the charity.

I also think all "goodness" is negated if the gift is given in a sanctimonious way or to make a dig at the recipient.

Mrsrudolphduvall · 27/12/2012 08:33

You can give camels too (but they are more expensive and give much rise to sniggering about camel toe)

Himalaya · 27/12/2012 08:53

I wouldn't assume that the giver was making a point about you being wasteful. She probably just couldn't think of what to get you and thought it would be "nice".

It turns out its not what you wanted,but no worse than a book you don't fancy, the wrong colour gloves or smellies you are not keen on. That's the way it goes with gifts.

BTW the money goes towards livestock projects, so there is no danger "your goat" could be wandering about untended. The money may have been spent on animal health training or vetinary drugs or a fencing etc... rather than a goat.

SantasENormaSnob · 27/12/2012 09:34

I would be pissed off tbh.

If the giver was that bothered they couldve asked for their own gifts to be charity ones.

Fakebook · 27/12/2012 09:45

"The goat giver". Grin

Sorry, nothing else to add. That's a shit present.

fatlazymummy · 27/12/2012 10:03

I wouldn't be grateful if someone donated a goat to a 3rd party, because I wouldn't consider it a gift to me.`I wouldn't be upset at all if the person was upfront about it, and said 'I've decided not to give you a present. I've decided to donate to charity instead'. Just don't donate to charity then pretend it's a gift to me. It's not, it's a present to the people who have received the donation.

catsrus · 27/12/2012 10:16

I love getting gift goats - and would much prefer money went to ANY charity than on some tat I didn't need or like. This year the DCs and I did 'charity shop secret Santa ' only one person bought for each of us and it had to be bought from a charity shop - it was brilliant and real fun to do.

I would only get a gift goat for someone I thought was ethically minded and would 'get' it - so I think they were paying you a compliment.

FryOneFatChristmasTurkey · 27/12/2012 10:35

The only times I have seen these "gifts" being given in my extended family, they have been about the giver not the recipient.

A goat gift isn't actually a well thought out present. If people want to give to charity on my behalf, then just a little bit of knowledge would lead people to the charities I support, local stuff that won't need goats. A goat gift would imply they haven't bothered to make any effort to find out who I support, so it wouldn't feel like a gift to me at all.

2rebecca · 27/12/2012 10:41

I think if anyone did actually get me a charity shop donation instead of a gift I'd suggest that in future we don't bother exchanging gifts. We don't exchange gifts with distant relatives just parents/ sibs etc. We give present suggestions to those we do exchange gifts with if asked.

Narked · 27/12/2012 10:47

It wouldn't bother me to be given a charity gift but in this case it's not so much a gift as a dig - 'The goat giver has in the past made it clear that they think we live a wasteful life.'

At least that's next year's present for them sorted. As they are fond of charitable gifts. I'd go for something more useful than goats though. Water Aid are good.

thegreylady · 27/12/2012 10:53

One year we gave dgc gifts like this as well as their usual presents and we gifted things like toilets,goats and chickens in the name of the child concerned. We asked the children what they wanted to give - toilets were most popular :-). and it was a success but I would never do it without asking and it would never be the only present (We can't afford it now anyway).

ZenNudist · 27/12/2012 11:06

Def give them charity gift next year. In your thank you card don't say thanks, say 'just to acknowledge your gift, in the future if you want to give to charity on our behalf we support x and x, we now know to give to oxfam On Your behalf. If you'd prefer we could just agree to not buy presents next year. ' Grin

I certainly would not spend all that money on expensive gifts for them next year. One thing for you to think about, a lot of people don't like to spend much on gifts and haven't got hundreds of pounds for gift budgets. I find with those people that give most to us we won't match their gift in monetary amount, and it's nigh impossible to find something you think they'd want or need.

To the outside eye you look like you've got everything. Lucky you! People aren't psychic and not everyone can hit on inspiration for a truly thoughtful gift. Perhaps next year try telling people what you'd like, or agree not to do gifts to avoid feeling put out as you do give to receive.