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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Daily Mail inciting hate again.

95 replies

vivizone · 24/12/2012 01:46

I don't know how they get away with this - they dodge backlash all the time.

There will be an ethnic war soon in this country. DM will be 98 per cent responsible.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2252675/Were-way-Britain-In-year-29-million-Romanians-Bulgarians-right-settle-Britain-claim-benefits-And-gipsy-community-hardly-wait-here.html

OP posts:
HollyBerryBush · 24/12/2012 09:30

Thats your look out LDR - Im not racist, but I am observant.

Just because someone tells you somethigng you don't like, you cannot bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesnt exist.

kim147 · 24/12/2012 09:32

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Santasapunkatheart · 24/12/2012 09:32

The DM get money each time you click on their wretched site, through revenue. So I will not give them any more income for their bigoted, hysterical, ignorant and fact-thin journalism. I am a journalist and trust me, I know their ethos and even the remit some of their journalists are giving. I would NEVER work for them.

Yes there needs to be discussion and communities need to get together. But when whole races of people are lumped into one as 'threatening' and 'always begging' then there is a problem with perception and yes, the defiinition of racism is to assume that all people of one race are identical.

When Irish people immigrated here, there was so vile feeling from people - with the infamous No dogs, No blacks, No Irish up in boarding houses countrywide. Now I have heard Irish immigrants moan about Eastern Europeans. It is a matter of newness. During the war, we begged West Indian people to come to Britain.

We are a multi-cultural society. My mother and her family came here when the partition (India and Pakistan) seemed to be heading into danger. They all worked hard here and became doctors, surgeons and a dentist. My cousin is currently a Professor of Cardiology, doing some very important research that is saving lives. But the amount of abuse and horrible language they received during their time here, was appalling. Filled with hatred and stupidity. I even had it at school. You have no idea how much it hurts and makes a person angry, to be called names and hated.

So yes, discussion by all means. But not in the rabble-rousing way that the DM employ. It's not helpful because it is the language of hate, not the language of rational discussion and compassion.

kim147 · 24/12/2012 09:43

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bamboostalks · 24/12/2012 09:47

I just think it is so unhelpful that every discussion about this very serious issue quickly cites some hugely successful immigrant who has incalculably added to the nation in some way. That, and references to Vikings, Romans, Huguenots, Ghanaian Asians etc As if that that totally wipes out any issues and problems we are facing now in a totally desperate situation. Mumsnet just infuriates me on this issue. Anyone who dissents is a racist. End of. Total rubbish.

LRDtheFeministDude · 24/12/2012 09:54

holly - prejudice against people because they're 'Eastern European' or 'roma' - that is racist.

You haven't a fucking clue what my Eastern European DH is like, and he's a damn sight more of an asset to this country than racists who are too ignorant to realize their own stupidity.

Santasapunkatheart · 24/12/2012 09:56

I don't think anyone has said that here, bamboo. We are requesting an intelligent discussion about an important issue. Immigration can be a boost but of course there may be problems, which need to be addressed. It's the fury and horrible way immigration is labelled that people have a problem with, mostly. It stirs up hatred. You cannot lump all Roma together in one, just as you cannot lump all English/Welsh/Scottish people as one...humans are individuals.

Totally desperate situation? Really? I would love to see the statistics and the discussion on that, rather than sweeping generalisations. The DM employs a one size fits all - it uses individual cases to show that 'We all feel like this' and then people leap upon this instead of looking at the bigger picture.

Yes there are successful immigrants. There are in life successful people. There are also people fleeing from horrific situations. There are freeloaders. Also existing freeloaders. It happens. All that I am asking if for people to imagine what it is like to be an outsider, to be hated. You push people further into their communities by doing that...make them distrust. Better to understand and empathise...so that proper intelligent discussion can take place.

HollyBerryBush · 24/12/2012 09:58

Well said santa especially your last paragraph

moondog · 24/12/2012 10:00

How utterly egocentric of you LRD to equate the issues Holly raises with your Platonic ideal of a spouse.

It's not about you.

Pantomimedam · 24/12/2012 10:01

The Daily Mail is supposed to back 'strivers' - hard working people who seek a better life for their families. But only if they are English by birth, it would appear...

LRDtheFeministDude · 24/12/2012 10:02

I don't think it is egocentric.

I am simply making the point that holly is being racist by lumping all immigrants together on the basis of where they come from, and observing that her generalizations are clearly incorrect.

You only need one counter-example to show how stupid it is to claim 'Eastern Europeans' (or 'roma') fit a single stereotype, so that's why I provided one.

Btw, he's not a platonic ideal, sweetie, he's my DH. A 'Platonic ideal' doesn't exist. Did you mean to sound so ridiculous?

Santasapunkatheart · 24/12/2012 10:04

Holly has raised issues? By saying 'London is full of East Europeans who seem to do very little but beg, leap on theour car at traffic lights and start window washing, or undercut local labour in the building trade...' I would be appalled if someone said such a sweeping statement about Indian people and yes, I would probably disagree by using my family as an example. It is about knowledge versus ignorance. That is NOT observation to lump all people together.

Also if was platonic...it wouldn't be very sexy!

kim147 · 24/12/2012 10:05

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Santasapunkatheart · 24/12/2012 10:06

News from the other side of the story:

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/12/mixed-race-britain-readers-respond

kim147 · 24/12/2012 10:07

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Santasapunkatheart · 24/12/2012 10:08

I also find the hating of children really really uncomfortable, Kim. Thank goodness that there are people like you in schools and you can inform people of the truth, rather than the generalisations...

HollyBerryBush · 24/12/2012 10:12

Well as we have a Roma site three mile up the road, I base my opinions on the ones who leave the site. I can make the distinction between all East Europeans and I haven't lumped them in together - I made a specific comment on romas and pavement cafes plus the fact our local papers are full of police raids in Kent on paedophile trafficking.

You may not like it - but it exists and people have to be aware.

www.thisiskent.co.uk/Ex-P-amp-O-worker-heads-regional-partnership/story-12701761-detail/story.html

Another recently completed report, handed on to Immigration Minister Damian Green, looks into the problems faced by Eastern European Roma people and how voluntary return could be used more to help some migrants repatriate to their countries.

Mr Millard, who worked for Migrant Helpline for ten years before taking his new role in February 2010, said: "There are 12 partnerships in the UK which were set up in 2000 to look at how asylum seekers impact on local areas. There was a change in 2007, in line with the expansion of the EU, when it was expanded to look at every form of international migration.

"We look at EU and non-EU workers, what they are doing and where and whether the indigenous population could fill these jobs if there is a cap on migration.The research is to help authorities understand the nature and history of the people so services can be informed.

"My role is to help authorities and other agencies understand the impact of migration in the south east and how we can use this information to help shape national policy and government thinking."

www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/25/eastern-european-immigration-crime-britain

combattrafficking.eu/content/sex-trafficking-warwickshire

www.kentlaw.edu/perritt/courses/seminar/VHayes-final-IRPaper.pdf

LRDtheFeministDude · 24/12/2012 10:17

Well, I can't quote you any more, fortunately, holly, but you did make a general comment, actually.

You're pushing anecdotes. So am I. But let's be honest and admit they are anecdotes.

Santasapunkatheart · 24/12/2012 10:19

These are indeed shocking stories, Holly. But it does not mean that all people of a certain nationalities are sex traffickers. There are plenty of white working class pimps in business.

Thank God at least some of these women and girls were helped.

There are wicked people in the world prepared to exploit innocence. Of all nationalities. It has sadly come to the surface via the Jimmy Savile case. But we do not suspect all long-haired men in track suits with cigars, do we?

Cultural differences do need to be debated - one community to another.

Horrible stuff though.

FanjoTimeMammariesAndWine · 24/12/2012 10:21

They also have an article today about obese people being "scroungers" ..full of the Christmas spirit there DM.

Santasapunkatheart · 24/12/2012 10:22

Also, read that last bit in your Guardian article, Holly:

Crime has always been an import-export affair and in many ways mirrors "legitimate" business. As old family firms in Britain have been replaced by multinationals so, too, have the family-based gangs in Britain (the Krays, Richardsons, Arifs, Adams) been overtaken by multinationals, where different nationalities co-operate in the pursuit of higher profits. This is a two-way street. Many British criminals have moved abroad, most famously establishing themselves on the Costa del Crime. Many still operate there, making money from everything from bent time-share deals to drugs smuggled in from Morocco; more than 2,000 Britons had their collars felt in Spain last year alone. British criminals also made themselves at home everywhere from Thailand to Florida. The police may well be right when they say that the Games will attract villains from the east but, if there was to be an Olympics for crime, homegrown Britons would still be going for gold.

That's really food for thought.....

OhDearNigel · 24/12/2012 10:34

I do believe that Moondog was referring to the philosopher Plato when she made the comment "Platonic ideal of a DH". The capitalisation gave it away.

A Platonic ideal is perfected ideas of an object or being. A manifestation of absolute perfection.

Before you say that people "sound ridiculous" best to check your own comprehension eh ?

swallowedAfly · 24/12/2012 10:36

i think we need some kind of law that says people migrating within the EU who act anti-socially can be made to leave.

it is very difficult for the people who actually live in the areas where non working immigrants with very different cultural norms (such as treatment of women) amass. you can't ignore that - it is miserable to see your town turn into a no go zone and to feel like you are surrounded by anti social behaviour that isn't being tackled. you can't just tell those people they're racists and they should be fine about it.

my local town has changed with every wave of immigration and it really is difficult for people who own property in the town centre and are trapped there. obviously not all immigrating populations are anti social but some are

living next door to people who cram ten in a house and feel fine about pissing in the garden and street, throw out their excessive quantities of rubbish onto the street every day regardless of collection day and pile it in the gardens bringing vermin problems and keep loud unsociable hours is bound to upset people and this does happen. ignoring it doesn't solve it. pretending it's racist to point it out doesn't deal with the issue.

of course it's some and not all but some is still some you know!? and it doesn't take many to totally change the dynamics of an area leaving people trapped living somewhere that bears no resemblance to the area they chose to buy a house in. and it doesn't take many to totally change a school and push it beyond it's limits.

i hate the daily mail but these things have to be discussed and the refusal to sensibly discuss them and allow people to express their worries and realities they're living with is what pushes it into rags like the daily fail with inflammatory headlines and black and white presentation of issues.

totally agree with the person who said it's easy to be fine if you're living in gloucestershire but less easy if you're in a small town that has been hit with large numbers of immigration from populations with notorious integration issues.

Santasapunkatheart · 24/12/2012 10:38

I have a philosophy degree, Ohdear. Have you ever heard of sarcasm?

kim147 · 24/12/2012 10:38

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