to keep dc away from MIL - not usual MIL type stuff WWYD? LOOONG

[NcNcNcNc]

MIL has a on/off again partner of 5 years. DH and I don't really know him, probably met him 10 times. They now live together. I've only known MIL for 6 years myself so don't know her well either.

Over last 12 months MIL has been part of our lives, seeing the dc every couple of weeks or so. About 3 months ago she brought her partner with her and when they took our youngest dd (3) out for the day they did it together - no problem. This has probably happened 3 times. MIL asks to have dd rather than us asking her iyswim.

Last time it turned out they'd bathed dd and MIL's partner was in the bathroom during this. I said to DH privately that it must not happen again. I'm not seeing 'peeeedos' round every corner, I just don't think its appropriate for a man I hardly know to be bathing my dd or in the room. DH agrees. There is a history of child abuse in their family, the abuser is no longer alive but we are all probably extra sensitive due to this.

Week ago my eldest dd (8) said she didn't want to go out with them again because they 'shouted' at her and also told her to stop cuddling her sister (the 3 year old) as she (3 yr old) was too old for cuddles She doesn't want to see them again even if we stay with her.

Today we mentioned to the youngest dd that she was going to grannies on monday and she screamed no. We said 'you love granny blah blah' and she kept on saying no she didn't want to go, that she didn't like granny or x, her partner. Really strange. She has said she'll only go if we stay with her. She's 3 so hard to get to what is driving this.

So WWYD? AIBU to keep them away? Should I...

Mention the bathing thing and that its a not to happen again? How?
Tell them that eldest dd doesnt want to see them due to 'shouting'?
Tell them that youngest dd doesnt want to see them either?

I can't see this ending very well. Should say I'm not suggesting any sexual abuse has taken place at all, the bathing thing is a separate issue really, just makes me think MIL's judgement isn't good. I do wonder if they've been shouted at though, smacked maybe??

I think the relationship restarted when her and her partner split up originally (they got back together later). DH was talking to her by text and phone occasionally. They met up a couple of times to 'talk things through' - didn't go particularly well. She told him he'd always been a 'bugger' as a child

Anyway, eventually I said he could take dd to meet her and he could have whatever relationship he wanted to with his DM obviously, but as long as it didn't involve me.

That carried on for a while then she kept saying she wanted to see me as well and finally we invited her round. Nothing about the past was mentioned. Was all very awkward then got easier as time went on. Then about 4 months ago maybe, the partner started to be involved too.

Something else - she lived with her partner in his house and she decided she was going to dump him. We all went out for a meal, she was holding hands with him, talking about the future etc then she came outside the restaurant on a pretext to show us her new car. When we were outside she said she'd secretly rented a flat which was being decorated and as soon as it was ready she was dumping him and moving in I felt horrible having to go back inside the restaurant knowing this and knowing he didn't know, it was grim.

She did indeed move out but then they got back together (again)

So basically, she didn't have her on-off boyfriend to torture keep her amused, so she thought she'd find another toy to play with? But didn't feel the need when she was 'on' with the boyfriend?

Oh NcNcNcNc, this woman is bad news on so many levels. She is bad for your DH's mental health and happiness, and when she decides she's bored with playing at being a grandmother, she'll drop your DD without so much as a backwards glance. Which will hurt her if she have established a deeper relationship by then.

Right now, your DDs don't want to see her. Your 8 year old is able to articulate why. Your 3 year old not so much, but she has still made it clear. From their perspective she is not 'granny' - someone they've known all their life. She's just some adult who's been around for the last year. And they're not enthralled by her at all. Listen to them, and as you have already said you should "be 'unavailable' for a while". THe more superficial you can keep the contact, the better for all.

This is so fucking depressing.

Why would you allow your children to have any contact with this woman who has proved again and again what she's like? Surely you can see you'd all be better off just cutting contact? Genuine question. She's done a number on her son, he's been trained his whole life to behave like this, but why do you?

A 3 yo and 8 yo need protection from this nonsense because they are still children.

Maybe your husband would like a book on toxic parents / narcissistic mothers, or some counselling sessions for Christmas?

Orchidee - I know it looks ridiculous on paper, and this is only a few of the things she has done but when she is with the gdc in front of me she is lovely.

I think I just built my trust up because she was so good with them when I was there. I should never have let her have them on her own.

I think I put things in to compartments - her relationship with DH = terrible, her relationship with my dds = very good. So although she's a shitbag (sometimes) to DH, she's not to my dds.

We will see what today brings.

I agree re counselling, I've asked him and we'll arrange for New Year.

Please listen to your dc's, and please don't leave then alone with her. Hope today goes well.

I remember the thread about the nativity.

I think you should sever all ties.

I think you can safely say she does not have a very good relationship with your daughters,

It's sounds like you could say that she had a good relationship with them whilst you are around to see it.

One thing that would be useful for you and your dh to be aware of is that often manipulative emotionally abusive people once they lose there grip on the person they have previously been completely in control of,they tend to target them through others for example, by going after people whose hurt would cause the previous target to be hurt.
Thereby indirectly further abusing the original victim.

It is very possible that you are a pawn in her abusive games, by getting you to believe she's lovely to your girls and your dh she is attempting to manipulate you into fighting her corner every time he try's to prevent her doing so, thereby not only making sure her has her to contend with when she makes demands but also you, perfectly innocently wondering why her requests shouldn't be catered for.

Ask yourself this, what's the easiest way to cause a person pain if they have got to a point in there life where you cannot physically hurt them and they are to grown up and emotionally aware to be hurt by sly digs or unpleasant words.

By going after there children.

That's a very good point, Sockreturningpixie.