to be pissed off at school for telling DD (5) about Baby Jesus?

[Kalemu]

We don't want religion anywhere near our house, one of the main reasons we chose to send our DD to state school instead of a CoFE school. Imagine my surprise when she came home with a Baby Jesus picture book and singing about the Baby King. This makes me very mad - it's not like we want to keep her in a bubble, but I wanted to have told her the different religion when she was a bit older.

Thinking of writing to the headteacher to let him know our thoughts, and to demand that we're informed next time they plan to talk about religious stuff in class. Do you think AIBU?

LibrarianByDay is right of course, Jesus certainly existed. It tends to be the virgin birth and resurrection that causes the disagreements

OP can you not see that a lot of hatred/prejudice is bred through ignorance? It is good that your child will be questioning the nativity and Jesus, you can then hopefully give a balanced view on what beliefs people have around Christianity. And Hinduism, and Sikhism, and Buddism etc, as they are covered at school.

Would you be upset if you child was part of a dragon for Chinese New Year? Or would you think it good they were learning about different cultures?

YABU - they teach lots of different religions at school. Children should be free to choose so all the school are doing are giving the children bits of information about the different religions. I can't see the harm in her knowing about it - the school are not making them believe on way or another that is the childs choice.

BTW I think what you said was perfectly fine for a 5 year old - not really sure what the issue is TBH!

Goodness me, Librarian. There's actually no evidence of any kind that Jesus existed - so quite where you've managed to get the idea that he "definitely" existed from is anyone's guess. The matter most certainly is "up for debate"

www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

or how about

www.godlessgeeks.com/JesusExist.htm

I doubt you'll bother reading this - but, with any luck you might and it'll prevent you from being so damn fucking rude in the future.

Bunbaker " I asked because all the people I know who don't "do" Christmas are of a different religion" I am a different religion, I'm Jewish. But a)even when I tell people that it doesn't stop them asking all of the above questions and b)I don't try and make chanukah feel like Christmas in our home just so that my kids don't feel they're missing out. Yes they do get presents but other than that it's a really low key affair.

Go into hybrination op. what a fun household yours must be right now, nthing for your poor dd to fplook forward to

Garlicbaubles I beg to differ. I believe there is plenty of evidence that he existed.

ImNotCute No, I read exactly what she said but didn't see the word all as being the pivotal part of the sentence.

BTW, I am not a Christian, although we do celebrate as a family at Christmas. I have no particular axe to grind.

YABU to be angry that the school has 'exposed' your DD to religion as its highly unreasonable to not have your DD fully informed about religion whether you believe it or not.
My family are all practising Christians and yet still taught me about ALL different religions. Knowing about different religions, beliefs and cultures is what makes a well balanced, sensitive, caring and tolerant society.

However YANBAAU to not want to include Jesus in your own Christmas celebrations. You can celebrate the spirit of Christmas however you want in your own home.

And I can't be arsed to debate this here & now in case anyone wants to get into it.

I think someone called Jesus (who was almost certainly NOT born in Bethlehem on Dec 25th, btw) probably did exist. But definitely? Certainly not. You need evidence to decide that someone definitely existed, and there is none.

Sorry.

OP YABsooooU.
But the degree of your unreasonableness is hilarious, so I forgive you.

Saying that though, your DD might not. Please read Sigmund's post and for your DD's sake, chill out.

You can celebrate Christmas as like a winter festival without the religion bit

I think I will believe the aetheist RS teacher with the theology degree on whether Jesus existed or not.

"Christmas is when we all celebrate his birthday"

I have to agree, the word all is the problematic part of that sentence.

Kalemu, YANB as U as some people are making out. The religious content of non-denom schools varies wildly according to the taste of the head teacher. We hope our kids will go to one where the assemblies are broadly Chistian in their moral nature, but don't mention god except in the RE sense or have prayers or anything. I'd check out what your school are actually doing, and you can withdraw children from RE lessons and religious assemblies if you'd rather teach that at home.

I find the whole baby Jesus thing rather cringeworthy, apart from anything else historians think Jesus was likely born in September or something. At our toddler group (surestart, no church affiliation or anything) xmas party one lady tried to do the nativity story and tell the kids "and that's why we celebrate xmas". If she hadn't already been drowned out by general excitement, think I'd have wanted to say "actually no, we celebrate because there's a long tradition of a midwinter celebration going way back before Christianity", or ask her why she thought the hindus in the room celebrated Christmas. (at least I assume they do given they were at the party!). She had good intentions, she's just very Christian and didn't think. I'd be less worried about school where teachers should have taken the time to think about how to present things without upsetting the non-Christian children in the room.

My 3 yr old knows that there's a story about a baby being born in a stable, and that it's a Christmas story that some people like. I think that's enough for now. HIs preschool Christmas content seems to have been mostly songs, I like that :) No nativity thank goodness. Though sure we'll get that once he starts school. I find the whole letters-to-Santa over-hyping of presents more harmful tbh. What happened to being happy with what you get given and enjoying seeing extended family?

Garlicbaubles I beg to differ. I believe there is plenty of evidence that he existed.

You're entitled to your belief, Librarian. That is different from asserting an historical fact. Ellie posted a couple of links - but, like her, I neither want nor need to get into this debate. It would probably not serve you well to follow her links or to seek historical evidence.

The school mentioned Jesus in the week before Christmas??
By all means let the Head know your thoughts. Give him a laugh, it certainly gave me one.

move out of the uk then. out of europe. its our culture and people need to know.

OP I think you must be keeping your DD in a bubble if she hasn't picked up on Christmas already. It's everywhere. Has she seriously not seen lights, trees, santas, adverts on TV and not asked you 'why'?

I don't think any serious scholar, whether atheist or religious, disputes the fact that Jesus existed .

Catkind Christmas is the Christian midwinter festival. Before Christians, it was there were numerous Pagan religious festivals at this time. However, we live in a broadly Christian culture and our current celebrations are based on the birth of the baby Jesus.

Maybe your story teller was a little too enthusiastic for your liking, but I think that it was age appropriate. IME, very young children aren't really up for a history lesson on all the historical midwinter festivals.

Ok, just as a starting point: Tacitus, a Roman Historian in the 1st /2nd Century AD writes about the activities of a group of Christians and what they believe about their leader, called Christ, who was crucified by Pontius Pilate. Josephus, a Jewish historian who worked for the Romans also mentions him as a "magician", as does Philo a Greek writer. The Talmud, Jewish writings from the time mention him also in quite disparaging terms. The very fact that the religion started and grew is evidence that he existed. There is huge amounts of evidence, both written and historical for the early Christian communities around the Mediterranean from the first century AD onward. Most of the disciples died fairly gruesome deaths in order to promulgate and spread the story of Jesus and shrines associated with their bodies also have archaeology that dates back to the 1st Century. I am making no claims at all about WHO he was or any of the supernatural elements. The nativity stories are a combination of stories about the birth of other religious figures at the time, eg Mithras (a popular Roman god) and even Isis; Christian theology "read back" into the stories and an editing process by the early church in the 3rd century. They are absolutely not historical in any literal sense BUT a person called Jesus did exist.

There have been VERY long threads on MN before about whether there was a historical Jesus. I think we accept the existence of many historical figures on far less evidence. I also think it is interesting that it is only in discussions about Christianity that the existence of the founder is called into question. I've seen plenty of debates about Islam, but none about whether Muhammad (pbuh) existed.

As you said you wanted to educate DC on other faiths when she's older, here is an article on the 10-11 (depending on how their calendars line up with the Gregorian) less known religious holidays that are around this time of year (not including Christian differences). While many go on about how midwinter festivals are the same, there are actually incredibly important differences.

But as other say, the UK laws says there must be a broadly Christian religious education (with a few schools given exception to use another faith) so there are no secular schools. You can opt-out or HE obviously but it's still in-bedded in society and culture so it will come up and a more proactive approach may be needed if that is what you want. I don't celebrate Christmas so we have the "some people celebrate this, some people celebrate" that conversation a bit more than the differences in beliefs one as it is more obvious to children at a young age (they can't see what someone believes but they can see the physical form of it through holidays so we discuss it through that).

My SiL and her children are Jehovah witnesses. She always went into the school to make sure that teachers were aware that she did not want her children taking part in the nativity etc, but apart from that she was ok with her children being made aware of other religions. called education isn't it?

Yep its called education, not indoctrination op.